The Ford Barn

cfbcovers · 05-26-2014, 10:44 PM

So I am having problems in shifting.
From Stand still no problem. When moving it grinds and has trouble going into 2nd and 3rd. Down shifting is horrible. I know how to double clutch and doesn't help much if at all.

Any ideas? Clutch? Gears? Anything else?

Thanks in advance.

John

JOES31 · 05-26-2014, 10:55 PM

What vehicle? Model A's have no synchromesh so they will grind until you learn when to shift. To go into second basically I shift shortly after the car starts going in first. I use first to launch the cat. To go from second to third I clutch and wait until everything quits down and it falls right into third. Down shift I clutch, off clutch and rev engine, clutch and go from third to second. I don't ever down shift to first.

Mike V. Florida · 05-26-2014, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfbcovers

So I am having problems in shifting.
From Stand still no problem. When moving it grinds and has trouble going into 2nd and 3rd. Down shifting is horrible. I know how to double clutch and doesn't help much if at all.

Any ideas? Clutch? Gears? Anything else?

Thanks in advance.

John

Only thing I can think of if your shifting at the correct times is the clutch is dragging.

bogdonj · 05-26-2014, 11:14 PM

I am having issues with this after my transmission was rebuilt on the Tudor. I have driven many model a' s and this is making me scratch my head. I checked to make sure the clutch clearance was good and still find it grinds going into second and third. Fluid was checked to make sure it was at the right level. Would having too much wear on the shift forks cause grinding????? Driving the roadster I have no issues at all. Let me know if u figure yours out

KenCoupe · 05-27-2014, 12:03 AM

How much free play do you have in the clutch pedal? If you have too much free play (or too little), you could experience grinding. The play should be about 1".

cfbcovers · 05-27-2014, 12:58 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Ken that helps I will test and check. Think I have a lot more than that

Tom Wesenberg · 05-27-2014, 04:11 AM

Do you have the heavy gear oil in the tranny?
Are you familure with how long it takes the heavy flywheel to slow down, even with double clutching?
It's quite a step from 2nd to 3rd, so when you downshift back to second you need to give the engine quite a bit of RPM's while double clutching.

I upshift at about 5 to 10 MPH to second gear, then shift to high about 15 to 25 depending on conditions. I don't downshift to second until the speed drops to about 10 to 15 MPH.

Patrick L. · 05-27-2014, 05:46 AM

Like the fellas said,
proper free play
clutch/linkage should be working smoothly
correct fluid
upshifts, take your time and don't hurry the shift
downshifts, double clutch and make sure the engine speed is high enough

colin1928 · 05-27-2014, 07:04 AM

What Tom said Oil weight

Willie Krash · 05-27-2014, 10:11 AM

I picked a gallon of lubricate spo288 from a club member, synchromesh in a bottle.
If it the oil as suggested I would use 288.

hangarb7 · 05-27-2014, 11:38 AM

new member- first post. I have this problem occasionally and local club members think it is because the floor on my garage is damp and here in western PA, tools will rust in an unheated garage.

So after the car sits for up to a week or longer, I have the problem. It will grind so bad going into gear it sounds like I am not using the clutch pedal. After ten minutes of driving, the car is perfect and I never hit a tooth going up or down shift. If I drive the car in a few days, still no problems. If I have to let it sit while on vacation for a couple of weeks, it is the worst.

The point here is that they believe that rust is the culprit in my case. I am considering a computer type fan blowing air under the car all the time to keep the air moving.

Any comments would be fine.

Tom Wesenberg · 05-27-2014, 11:43 AM

I would lay down plastic and cover it with free used carpet. It made a big difference in my garage, which has a salt soaked cement floor in an unheated garage.

mshmodela · 05-27-2014, 12:14 PM

Tom, thanks for . "I don't downshift to second until the speed drops to about 10 to 15 MPH." that seems what I've discovered on my own, seems the limit... Appear in slowing down from 3rd at that speed the engine does just fine....

Also, for me as a new owner, double clutching while upshifting --even though not needed, helped slow me down... and learn that gear feathering... Still grining a tad but getting better (2 month later....)

bogdonj · 05-27-2014, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hangarb7

new member- first post. I have this problem occasionally and local club members think it is because the floor on my garage is damp and here in western PA, tools will rust in an unheated garage.

So after the car sits for up to a week or longer, I have the problem. It will grind so bad going into gear it sounds like I am not using the clutch pedal. After ten minutes of driving, the car is perfect and I never hit a tooth going up or down shift. If I drive the car in a few days, still no problems. If I have to let it sit while on vacation for a couple of weeks, it is the worst.

The point here is that they believe that rust is the culprit in my case. I am considering a computer type fan blowing air under the car all the time to keep the air moving.

Any comments would be fine.

Very interesting point. My garage when it's warm out and the doors left open gets alot of moisture inside until I shut the doors. I wounder if this causes it but doesn't explain why the Roadster has no issue. Mine does the exact same and after driving it for 5-10min it gets better.

cfbcovers · 05-27-2014, 06:05 PM

I just purchased Snyder's 600 Oil

Probably drain and refill with this. Good Idea?

The Ford car was designed to use this extra heavy clinging type oil in the rear axle. This oil is almost a grease in weight and clings to the ring gear. Do not overfill. New squeeze bottle with a pour spout. Model T requires 1 quart for the rear axle. Model A requires 2 quarts total for the rear end, transmission and steering box. U.S.A.M-533

The lubricant used in the early days of motoring up into the thirties

was a very heavy clinging type of lubricant known as 600 W Oil. In viscosity

it was very much like today’s S. A. E. 250 Gear Oil.

This was before the full floating rear axle came into general use and

allowance had to be made in the seals to allow the axle to move up

and down as far as a quarter inch. To prevent the oil from leaking at the

wheels, the lubricant was made to cling to the gears.

In today’s cars the seals can be made to fit

very close due to better

engineering and materials. Therefore lighter weight lubricants are used.

In 1932 the Ford Bulletin recommended that in extreme cold weather,

the lubricant in the transmission could be thinned up to 10% with kerosene.

The main causes of oil

leaking at the rear wheels

are worn seals or bearings.

Over filling the differential

case or using a lighter

weight lubricant than

recommended.

One Quart (0.95 Liters)

05-26-2014, 10:44 PM	#1
cfbcovers Junior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 14	Clutch Problems So I am having problems in shifting. From Stand still no problem. When moving it grinds and has trouble going into 2nd and 3rd. Down shifting is horrible. I know how to double clutch and doesn't help much if at all. Any ideas? Clutch? Gears? Anything else? Thanks in advance. John

05-26-2014, 10:55 PM	#2
JOES31 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: La Verne California Posts: 283	Re: Clutch Problems What vehicle? Model A's have no synchromesh so they will grind until you learn when to shift. To go into second basically I shift shortly after the car starts going in first. I use first to launch the cat. To go from second to third I clutch and wait until everything quits down and it falls right into third. Down shift I clutch, off clutch and rev engine, clutch and go from third to second. I don't ever down shift to first.

05-26-2014, 11:14 PM	#4
bogdonj Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Walkerton, Ont. Canada Posts: 623	Re: Clutch Problems I am having issues with this after my transmission was rebuilt on the Tudor. I have driven many model a' s and this is making me scratch my head. I checked to make sure the clutch clearance was good and still find it grinds going into second and third. Fluid was checked to make sure it was at the right level. Would having too much wear on the shift forks cause grinding????? Driving the roadster I have no issues at all. Let me know if u figure yours out __________________ _________________________________________ 1931 Ford Model A Tudor 1930 Ford Model A Deluxe Roadster 1930 Ford Original Rolling Chassis- Restoring

05-27-2014, 12:03 AM	#5
KenCoupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 241	Re: Clutch Problems How much free play do you have in the clutch pedal? If you have too much free play (or too little), you could experience grinding. The play should be about 1".

05-27-2014, 12:58 AM	#6
cfbcovers Junior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 14	Re: Clutch Problems Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Ken that helps I will test and check. Think I have a lot more than that

05-27-2014, 04:11 AM	#7
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Clutch Problems Do you have the heavy gear oil in the tranny? Are you familure with how long it takes the heavy flywheel to slow down, even with double clutching? It's quite a step from 2nd to 3rd, so when you downshift back to second you need to give the engine quite a bit of RPM's while double clutching. I upshift at about 5 to 10 MPH to second gear, then shift to high about 15 to 25 depending on conditions. I don't downshift to second until the speed drops to about 10 to 15 MPH.

05-27-2014, 05:46 AM	#8
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Clutch Problems Like the fellas said, proper free play clutch/linkage should be working smoothly correct fluid upshifts, take your time and don't hurry the shift downshifts, double clutch and make sure the engine speed is high enough

05-27-2014, 07:04 AM	#9
colin1928 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Australa Melbourne Posts: 878	Re: Clutch Problems What Tom said Oil weight

05-27-2014, 10:11 AM	#10
Willie Krash Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Phoenix, Oregon Posts: 661	Re: Clutch Problems I picked a gallon of lubricate spo288 from a club member, synchromesh in a bottle. If it the oil as suggested I would use 288. __________________ Mike Stitt "A business that make nothing but money is a poor business." -Henry Ford

05-27-2014, 11:38 AM	#11
hangarb7 Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: North Versailles, PA Posts: 148	Re: Clutch Problems new member- first post. I have this problem occasionally and local club members think it is because the floor on my garage is damp and here in western PA, tools will rust in an unheated garage. So after the car sits for up to a week or longer, I have the problem. It will grind so bad going into gear it sounds like I am not using the clutch pedal. After ten minutes of driving, the car is perfect and I never hit a tooth going up or down shift. If I drive the car in a few days, still no problems. If I have to let it sit while on vacation for a couple of weeks, it is the worst. The point here is that they believe that rust is the culprit in my case. I am considering a computer type fan blowing air under the car all the time to keep the air moving. Any comments would be fine.

05-27-2014, 11:43 AM	#12
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Clutch Problems I would lay down plastic and cover it with free used carpet. It made a big difference in my garage, which has a salt soaked cement floor in an unheated garage.

05-27-2014, 12:14 PM	#13
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,765	Re: Clutch Problems Tom, thanks for . "I don't downshift to second until the speed drops to about 10 to 15 MPH." that seems what I've discovered on my own, seems the limit... Appear in slowing down from 3rd at that speed the engine does just fine.... Also, for me as a new owner, double clutching while upshifting --even though not needed, helped slow me down... and learn that gear feathering... Still grining a tad but getting better (2 month later....) __________________ -Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio

05-27-2014, 06:05 PM	#15
cfbcovers Junior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 14	Re: Clutch Problems I just purchased Snyder's 600 Oil Probably drain and refill with this. Good Idea? The Ford car was designed to use this extra heavy clinging type oil in the rear axle. This oil is almost a grease in weight and clings to the ring gear. Do not overfill. New squeeze bottle with a pour spout. Model T requires 1 quart for the rear axle. Model A requires 2 quarts total for the rear end, transmission and steering box. U.S.A.M-533 The lubricant used in the early days of motoring up into the thirties was a very heavy clinging type of lubricant known as 600 W Oil. In viscosity it was very much like today’s S. A. E. 250 Gear Oil. This was before the full floating rear axle came into general use and allowance had to be made in the seals to allow the axle to move up and down as far as a quarter inch. To prevent the oil from leaking at the wheels, the lubricant was made to cling to the gears. In today’s cars the seals can be made to fit very close due to better engineering and materials. Therefore lighter weight lubricants are used. In 1932 the Ford Bulletin recommended that in extreme cold weather, the lubricant in the transmission could be thinned up to 10% with kerosene. The main causes of oil leaking at the rear wheels are worn seals or bearings. Over filling the differential case or using a lighter weight lubricant than recommended. One Quart (0.95 Liters)