The Ford Barn

mshmodela · 04-05-2014, 04:03 PM

Looking for opinions on water wetter:

Appears Les Andrews has used it...

http://www.mafca.com/tqa_e_cooling.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pApWgZdozQA

machine girl · 04-05-2014, 04:36 PM

tried it in a couple of street rods, saw no difference, also not cheep.

CarlG · 04-05-2014, 04:53 PM

My PU came from Southern California and had water-wetter in it when I bought it. The guy I bought it from was suppose to drain it and put anit-freeze in it for me, but didn't. Shipped it anyway. In February. To Alaska. You can no doubt finish the rest of that story!

V4F · 04-05-2014, 05:26 PM

I use it for pump lub & in place of anti-freeze . works good ......

29er · 04-05-2014, 05:36 PM

The use of what coolant to use is certainly not universal among Ford Barn members. Andy Wiedeman of the Rocky Mountain A's contributed to the discussion by his recent technical guide, "What coolant to use".

WaterWetter is discussed in detail in Section 5 beginning on page 27.

http://rmaford.org/wp-content/blogs....uids_v2007.pdf

Whether one favors water or year-round anti-freeze, I'm sure Andy's treatise will provide food for thought! Thanks Andy!

Mike in Or-e-gun

jerry shook · 04-05-2014, 06:16 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I use it in all my 18 cars and trucks, works great, not expensive when it helps prevent rust and runs 20 degree.

jerry shook · 04-05-2014, 06:17 PM

20 degree cooler.

Willie Krash · 04-05-2014, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 29er

The use of what coolant to use is certainly not universal among Ford Barn members. Andy Wiedeman of the Rocky Mountain A's contributed to the discussion by his recent technical guide, "What coolant to use".

WaterWetter is discussed in detail in Section 5 beginning on page 27.

http://rmaford.org/wp-content/blogs....uids_v2007.pdf

Whether one favors water or year-round anti-freeze, I'm sure Andy's treatise will provide food for thought! Thanks Andy!

Mike in Or-e-gun

Mike, before I quick read your link I asked myself if a drop of soap in the radiator would break the surface tension (It will) and aid to cooling.
Just a thought.
Another Mike in Orygun, aka Willie Krash.

roccaas · 04-05-2014, 07:27 PM

Works great in Southern heat.

Marco Tahtaras · 04-05-2014, 10:22 PM

Water Wetter is the ONLY thing I've used with distilled water that has proven to be corrosive to brass radiators. Since about 1976 I've never used antifreeze in a Model A since it seems to create passages to seep through and around original type gaskets where water won't. Also, I'm near the West coast where lengthy severe LOW temperatures don't exist. Water Wetter was the ONLY additive I've ever used that not only did not prevent corrosion but proved to be corrosive to my brass radiators. Unfortunately I ran it concurrently in two cars with beautiful original radiators (admittedly thin from previous decades) and it took out both cores almost simultaneously. They had both cooled the cars perfectly under all conditions for 10-15 years.

In all fairness it would likely take years for it to show damage to a NEW brass radiator core which most folks run. Personally I'll never get near the stuff again.

A couple years ago when I was faced with the strange phenomena of loosing not one but two radiators under seemingly optimal conditions, the common denominator hit home and I spent about eight hours straight doing research. I found several well documented instances of similar results.

James Rogers · 04-06-2014, 06:51 AM

I agree with Marco, water wetter is just a band-aid and is corrosive. I only use water with Gunk waterpump lubricant and anti rust. Antifreeze is not only slick and will find a way to get under a gasket but, it is very abrasive and will take out the mains and rod bearings in short order if it seeps into the oil and is run for long without knowing the seep exists.

The Gunk lube is cheap at 1.50$ per treatment. Only need to add it when the water is drained.

mshmodela · 04-06-2014, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 29er

The use of what coolant to use is certainly not universal among Ford Barn members. Andy Wiedeman of the Rocky Mountain A's contributed to the discussion by his recent technical guide, "What coolant to use".

WaterWetter is discussed in detail in Section 5 beginning on page 27.

http://rmaford.org/wp-content/blogs....uids_v2007.pdf

Whether one favors water or year-round anti-freeze, I'm sure Andy's treatise will provide food for thought! Thanks Andy!

Mike in Or-e-gun

Great white paper... it went will with my morning coffee..

Many thanks...

-Mike
Cleveland, Ohio

29er · 04-06-2014, 01:20 PM

Mike (Willie Crash): You hit upon the primary reason proponents of Water Wetter (WW) give for using it: the stuff reduces surface tension of water, thereby reducing the size of air bubbles that form on the inside of the engine and allowing more of the coolant (water) to make contact with hot metal surfaces, thus increasing the capacity of water to carry away heat and lowering engine temperatures.

While there are data showing WW does indeed reduce water's surface tension (including Andy Wiedeman's paper), the amount by which temperatures are lowered varies. The manufacturer of WW (Red Line Synthetic Oil) claims a reduction of coolant temperature of "up to 20 degrees" (http://www.redlineoil.com/products.a...e=true&pcid=10). Others, writing on this and other car forums, have reported significantly less benefit.

Your observation of using soap to reduce water's surface tension should theoretically result in the same cooling benefit. After all, that's how soap works. But the results of using soap in a Model A engine are unknown to me. How much soap is required? What kind of soap? By how much would soap lower engine temperatures? Do soaps contain other chemicals that may be beneficial or harmful to a Model A engine? I don't know, but I don't think I'll experiment on my car.

Red Line claims another reason for using WW is its anti-corrosive properties. By itself, water is corrosive to cooling systems. So, those who use water usually recommend some kind of anti-rust treatment be added to the radiator. There are differences of opinion about the ability of WW to reduce corrosion. And, as seen from the posts above, many people cite their personal experiences that the stuff actually promotes corrosion.

For me, the jury's still out. I've been following threads on what to use as an engine coolant for some time. I'm a little skeptical of many engine additives and I'd sure like to see some test data on the corrosiveness of Water Wetter. So if Marco or James or anybody else can cite any technical reports, I'd be much appreciative.

christian · 04-06-2014, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Rogers

I agree with Marco, water wetter is just a band-aid and is corrosive. I only use water with Gunk waterpump lubricant and anti rust. Antifreeze is not only slick and will find a way to get under a gasket but, it is very abrasive and will take out the mains and rod bearings in short order if it seeps into the oil and is run for long without knowing the seep exists.

The Gunk lube is cheap at 1.50$ per treatment. Only need to add it when the water is drained.

I've been using a 50/50 since I got my SW on the road, thinking about going to distilled water, but im concerned about the rust issue. This Gunk additive you mentioned, it functions as a rust inhibitor?

Tom Wesenberg · 04-06-2014, 02:35 PM

I wouldn't use soap for fear of corrosion. I used liquid dish soap to mount tires on my VW Rabbit aluminum rims until I found it was corroding the aluminum and I had a lot of rim leaks. I then started using Vaseline to mount and demount tires on both aluminum and steel rims. No corrosion and they hold air better than any other method.

As far as my cooling systems, I'll stick with 50% antifreeze and water. I've never had a problem because of antifreeze/water mix.

James Rogers · 04-06-2014, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian

I've been using a 50/50 since I got my SW on the road, thinking about going to distilled water, but im concerned about the rust issue. This Gunk additive you mentioned, it functions as a rust inhibitor?

It is basically water soluable oil. Mixes with water and lubricates the pump and oils the internals of the engine.

Smog Tech · 04-06-2014, 05:21 PM

I agree with Tom. 50% antifreeze and water has always worked well for me. It is the only coolant recommended by most manufactures.

Mitch//pa · 04-06-2014, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smog Tech

I agree with Tom. 50% antifreeze and water has always worked well for me. It is the only coolant recommended by most manufactures.

yep X3

rocket1 · 04-07-2014, 08:13 AM

If you are thinking about water wetter because your engine runs hot it's only a bandaid fix,some of the aftermarket radiators don't flow well causing high coolant temps.I have been running 50/50 antifreeze and an original radiator since 1961.

SteveB31 · 04-07-2014, 08:41 AM

I use water wetter in my race car (not Model A) that runs under extreme conditions at 14000 RPM. It does work, and is designed for that application.

A Model A Ford NEVER needs it. I have owned and driven Model A Fords for 30 years and driven them in all conditions from coast to coast. If you ave a good radiator, good fan and the car is timed right , you will NEVER run hot- ever.

The radiator is the key. If you are wanting to use water wetter rather then get a good radiator.......then save your money and get a good radiator, and use anti freeze and water year round and all your cooling problems are behind you.

Model A Fords are low compression, low RPM engines that just need a good radiator. Plain and simple. With a good radiator, under ANY conditions, it should never run more then 195 degress,

Steve Becker
Berts Model A Center

And use antifreeze. I sold 100 heads and several engines this winter to folks that thought their garage was warmer then it really was this cold winter. $20 spent on anti freeze would have saved them a lot of time and money.

04-05-2014, 04:03 PM	#1
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,765	water wetter Looking for opinions on water wetter: Appears Les Andrews has used it... http://www.mafca.com/tqa_e_cooling.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pApWgZdozQA

04-05-2014, 04:36 PM	#2
machine girl Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 422	Re: water wetter tried it in a couple of street rods, saw no difference, also not cheep.

04-05-2014, 04:53 PM	#3
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,192	Re: water wetter My PU came from Southern California and had water-wetter in it when I bought it. The guy I bought it from was suppose to drain it and put anit-freeze in it for me, but didn't. Shipped it anyway. In February. To Alaska. You can no doubt finish the rest of that story! __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club

04-05-2014, 05:26 PM	#4
V4F Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ca. Posts: 2,524	Re: water wetter I use it for pump lub & in place of anti-freeze . works good ...... __________________ V4f

04-05-2014, 05:36 PM	#5
29er Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oregon Posts: 465	Re: water wetter The use of what coolant to use is certainly not universal among Ford Barn members. Andy Wiedeman of the Rocky Mountain A's contributed to the discussion by his recent technical guide, "What coolant to use". WaterWetter is discussed in detail in Section 5 beginning on page 27. http://rmaford.org/wp-content/blogs....uids_v2007.pdf Whether one favors water or year-round anti-freeze, I'm sure Andy's treatise will provide food for thought! Thanks Andy! Mike in Or-e-gun

04-05-2014, 06:16 PM	#6
jerry shook Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 516	Re: water wetter Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I use it in all my 18 cars and trucks, works great, not expensive when it helps prevent rust and runs 20 degree.

04-05-2014, 06:17 PM	#7
jerry shook Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 516	Re: water wetter 20 degree cooler.

04-05-2014, 07:27 PM	#9
roccaas Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 1,300	Re: water wetter Works great in Southern heat. __________________ 20 years ago we had Johnny Cash, Steve Jobs, and Bob Hope. Now we have no Cash, no Jobs, and no Hope...please don't let Kevin Bacon die!

04-05-2014, 10:22 PM	#10
Marco Tahtaras Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,099	Re: water wetter Water Wetter is the ONLY thing I've used with distilled water that has proven to be corrosive to brass radiators. Since about 1976 I've never used antifreeze in a Model A since it seems to create passages to seep through and around original type gaskets where water won't. Also, I'm near the West coast where lengthy severe LOW temperatures don't exist. Water Wetter was the ONLY additive I've ever used that not only did not prevent corrosion but proved to be corrosive to my brass radiators. Unfortunately I ran it concurrently in two cars with beautiful original radiators (admittedly thin from previous decades) and it took out both cores almost simultaneously. They had both cooled the cars perfectly under all conditions for 10-15 years. In all fairness it would likely take years for it to show damage to a NEW brass radiator core which most folks run. Personally I'll never get near the stuff again. A couple years ago when I was faced with the strange phenomena of loosing not one but two radiators under seemingly optimal conditions, the common denominator hit home and I spent about eight hours straight doing research. I found several well documented instances of similar results. __________________ http://www.abarnyard.com/

04-06-2014, 06:51 AM	#11
James Rogers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Asheville,NC Posts: 3,104	Re: water wetter I agree with Marco, water wetter is just a band-aid and is corrosive. I only use water with Gunk waterpump lubricant and anti rust. Antifreeze is not only slick and will find a way to get under a gasket but, it is very abrasive and will take out the mains and rod bearings in short order if it seeps into the oil and is run for long without knowing the seep exists. The Gunk lube is cheap at 1.50$ per treatment. Only need to add it when the water is drained. __________________ http://www.model-a-ford-4bangers.com/

04-06-2014, 01:20 PM	#13
29er Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Oregon Posts: 465	Re: water wetter Mike (Willie Crash): You hit upon the primary reason proponents of Water Wetter (WW) give for using it: the stuff reduces surface tension of water, thereby reducing the size of air bubbles that form on the inside of the engine and allowing more of the coolant (water) to make contact with hot metal surfaces, thus increasing the capacity of water to carry away heat and lowering engine temperatures. While there are data showing WW does indeed reduce water's surface tension (including Andy Wiedeman's paper), the amount by which temperatures are lowered varies. The manufacturer of WW (Red Line Synthetic Oil) claims a reduction of coolant temperature of "up to 20 degrees" (http://www.redlineoil.com/products.a...e=true&pcid=10). Others, writing on this and other car forums, have reported significantly less benefit. Your observation of using soap to reduce water's surface tension should theoretically result in the same cooling benefit. After all, that's how soap works. But the results of using soap in a Model A engine are unknown to me. How much soap is required? What kind of soap? By how much would soap lower engine temperatures? Do soaps contain other chemicals that may be beneficial or harmful to a Model A engine? I don't know, but I don't think I'll experiment on my car. Red Line claims another reason for using WW is its anti-corrosive properties. By itself, water is corrosive to cooling systems. So, those who use water usually recommend some kind of anti-rust treatment be added to the radiator. There are differences of opinion about the ability of WW to reduce corrosion. And, as seen from the posts above, many people cite their personal experiences that the stuff actually promotes corrosion. For me, the jury's still out. I've been following threads on what to use as an engine coolant for some time. I'm a little skeptical of many engine additives and I'd sure like to see some test data on the corrosiveness of Water Wetter. So if Marco or James or anybody else can cite any technical reports, I'd be much appreciative.

04-06-2014, 02:35 PM	#15
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: water wetter I wouldn't use soap for fear of corrosion. I used liquid dish soap to mount tires on my VW Rabbit aluminum rims until I found it was corroding the aluminum and I had a lot of rim leaks. I then started using Vaseline to mount and demount tires on both aluminum and steel rims. No corrosion and they hold air better than any other method. As far as my cooling systems, I'll stick with 50% antifreeze and water. I've never had a problem because of antifreeze/water mix.

04-06-2014, 05:21 PM	#17
Smog Tech Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 145	Re: water wetter I agree with Tom. 50% antifreeze and water has always worked well for me. It is the only coolant recommended by most manufactures.

04-07-2014, 08:13 AM	#19
rocket1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Midland Park,N.J. Posts: 1,108	Re: water wetter If you are thinking about water wetter because your engine runs hot it's only a bandaid fix,some of the aftermarket radiators don't flow well causing high coolant temps.I have been running 50/50 antifreeze and an original radiator since 1961.

04-07-2014, 08:41 AM	#20
SteveB31 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Englewood, Colorado Posts: 1,377	Re: water wetter I use water wetter in my race car (not Model A) that runs under extreme conditions at 14000 RPM. It does work, and is designed for that application. A Model A Ford NEVER needs it. I have owned and driven Model A Fords for 30 years and driven them in all conditions from coast to coast. If you ave a good radiator, good fan and the car is timed right , you will NEVER run hot- ever. The radiator is the key. If you are wanting to use water wetter rather then get a good radiator.......then save your money and get a good radiator, and use anti freeze and water year round and all your cooling problems are behind you. Model A Fords are low compression, low RPM engines that just need a good radiator. Plain and simple. With a good radiator, under ANY conditions, it should never run more then 195 degress, Steve Becker Berts Model A Center And use antifreeze. I sold 100 heads and several engines this winter to folks that thought their garage was warmer then it really was this cold winter. $20 spent on anti freeze would have saved them a lot of time and money.