7 wire turn signal switch problems?

[Phred]

I'm having challenges with the turn signals on the Coupe I'm working on. Here are the details:

6 volt positive ground system
$20 Everlasting universal aftermarket turnsignal switch (7 wire)
I have (4) #535 6v flasher relays, 3 prong (X, L, P)
Small incandescent bulbs for signal lights (bulbs are marked C55)

I believe the system is correctly wired and grounded as I can power each individual bulb through the wiring with a dedicated hot wire from the battery. Each bulb will light up brightly. I can then power the turn signal switch directly (no flasher) and LH, RH, and 4way functions work properly and brightly. This leads me to believe the switch is "switching" properly.

With flasher"A"installed, the 4ways flash brightly at once per second, LH & RH flash brightly at once per two seconds, as does the indicator light in the switch body. Things are functioning properly, except I would like the LH & RH signals to flash at a rate faster than every two seconds, so more flashes are visible to traffic.
With flasher "B" installed, the 4ways flash brightly once per second, the LH & RH do not light up at all, and the indicator light in the switch body does not light.
With flashers "C" and "D", the indicator light lights up dimly with nothing activated and goes off when turn signal is activated. When the 4way is activated the lights flash brightly at once per second with no indicator light. When LH or RH activated, there is no clicking of the relay, no lighting of the indicator light, and the signal lamp stays lit very dimly.

All the above is repeatable.

Obviously, flasher "A" is the best option, but what is causing all the other "stuff" with flashers "B", "C", and "D"?

If flasher "A" is a heavy duty type, would a "light" duty flasher increase the rate of flash? Does a light duty 6v flasher exist?

Are flashers B,C, and D malfunctioning? Are the C55 bulbs not drawing enough current to have the flasher at a faster rate?
Help.........
Thanks in advance, Fordbarn!
　

[Jim Parker Toronto]

I would go with "A" flasher, and add some more bulbs in the line for the individual side signals. More resistance, the bulbs, might help.....

[CWPASADENA]

Originally Posted by Jim Parker Toronto

I would go with "A" flasher, and add some more bulbs in the line for the individual side signals. More resistance, the bulbs, might help.....

I agree,

I do not know the C.P. (Candle Power) of the C55 bulbs bit it sounds you need more load. Try temperarly using a 21 C.P. bulb for the front turn signals and see if that makes a difference.

Chris

[MikeK]

Not all flashers are true to their model number. 535 should be a heavy duty 6V flasher. Unfortunately there are a lot of little "cans" out there that were sold as aftermarket flashers that, although marked 535, are actually not, even before the china syndrome came to plague replacement parts.

First, there are two general categories of mechanical flashers, Load-Dependent and Heavy-Duty. All OEM passenger car apps (6V and 12V) had the Load-Dependent type, and for good reasons. 1) You could tell if you had a burned out or shorted bulb because the flash rate would change from what was 'normal'. Slow or no flash indicated an open lamp, fast a shorted one. There were many part numbers for different amperage loads. 2) Load-Dependent flashers light the turn signals immediately, permitting you to quickly tap the signal lever and blink the lights without waiting for any time cycle. They only click "off" after a heating cycle on an internal bi-metallic strip.

Many "HD" flashers are OFF 'till a slight delay heats the bi-metallic strip closing heavy, relay type tungsten contacts, capable of 10+ amps. "Heavy Duty" flashers were used by OEM's for truck apps only, where you had many lights, often on a trailer. They lacked those two important safety features, the ability to communicate an open or short condition as described, and the quick-blink ability. In later years (the 12 volt era) the Federal Department of Transportation mandated load-dependent flashers in passengers autos, but that didn't stop the aftermarket from pushing the idea that "HD" must be better, and only stocking those as replacements in parts stores instead of lots and lots of different load-dependent part numbers.

Your 535 is not actually that if it flashes at a different (faster) rate when on 4-way. It is actually some type of load-dependent flasher that was falsely marketed as a 535. If you want it to work faster, (this does not work on true HD flashers) put a dummy load (try a 10 ohm 5 watt) on each side, one in the left tail housing, one in the right. You can also tweak the flash rate by opening the can and changing the tension bias on the contacts.

About the "P" terminal- internally, most are junk, bare sheet metal contacts without tungsten or silver alloy points, and no 'wipe' action. They corrode and burn up fast. Some flashers (mostly the HD numbers) have them activated out of phase with the "L" terminal. Thus, when the actual lights are on the indicator is off, and when the flasher clicks the indicator is on, the turn lamps are off.

If you are electrically inclined and handy, you can easily tweak many of the so-called electronic 12V flashers to work on 6V, especially the old "Victor" jobs in transparent plastic where you see a magnet coil inside.

[Farrell In Vancouver]

The boys speak the truth, not enough load.
I had the exact same problem and solved it this way. Carefulley pry the can off the flasher and "tweak the load contacts a little closer so they close quicker, heat up faster and give you the rapid blinking for attention. (BE GENTLE!) I tried two or three times and got them to blink about 10 times per second, 30 times per sec and finally to where I wanted them at a quick blinka, blinka, blinka.
Once your happy reinstall the can and throw a wrap of tape on it to keep the dirt out. Same thing can be done to the plastic covered units but its sealed a bit better and problematic to re-cover once removed.
Good Luck!

[Christoph]

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I took the bite to go with the china-syndrome, as my car
original (in 1929) had no flash (i guess)

You dont have to, but just take a look for info :

http://www.motogadget.com/us/frameset.html

scroll down to "m-flash" (which i use and which works perfect even with LEDs)
or
"m-brake" which might be used for fast-blinking brake signals on modern cars
and bikes OR FOR FLASHES TO STOP THEMSELVES AFTER A CERTAIN TIME
(you cant forget them)

All of their relays have the size of you smallest finger-nail...

I changed towards china, as the flash-relay in my car started
to burn while driving (you should have heard my wife screaming...)

Best regards Christoph

PS
If you stay with your "original" relay, you need more load.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Christoph

I took the bite to go with the china-syndrome, ...

But the web site (and the product itself) says: Made in Germany!

This looks great, but, how does this unit replace the 3-prong flasher already in the system?

[Christoph]

OK Carl - You got me on this one ... its german ;-)

How i installed:
I ripped out eyerything (as most was burned)
Im not an electronics specialist and i did a test to learn before installation.
Basics was, that i put this tiny thing and a bulp between + and -
And the bulb started flashing (not too complicated, even for me)
Than i tested that its no matter if its one LED or lots of bulbs,
it always flashes with the same speed, which is ok to me.
Next i put in a turn-signal-switch (one cable in; one out to the right and
one out to the left ) and i put in 4 LEDs (2 on each side) and thats how
my construction works in my car.

Best regards from Germany
Christoph

PS
Using LEDs (just LEDs), i found out that LEDs shine more bright using
the 2 attached 2,5 Kilo-Ohm resitors as well (You burnadditional 0,005W with this).
I use one resistor for left side and one for right side just behind the turn-signal-switch (if you install in front of the switch, the relay (not the lights) will work all the time. I
dont know if that would hurt...)
Additional you might use micro-LEDs to indicate direction-flashes somewhere you
are able to see in the car as this tiny thing doesnt do sounds as your old mechanic relais did. BUT: This works perfect. ( Ja - Im german too, but No - they dont pay me)

[Tom Wesenberg]

I built my own flasher, which is independent of light bulb load. It will flash at the same rate with any load from 0 to 10 amps, which is the rating of the relay contacts. I can change the rate of flash by changing the capacitor. More microfarads will make it flash slower.

[Fred]

Simple; Left arm straight out, point to left, turn left.. Left arm out, bent @ elbow up, point to sun/moon, turn right...

[Christoph]

Hi Fred

You are taking the easy way out !

In my high-tec-"A" there is an automatic-device
which even works on hot summer-days.
As soon as i open a window, it sounds like:
"Close that window - its FREEZING cold"

best regards Christoph

btw
I didnt expect to state this here: "I really love my wife".

[fenbach]

for tom Wesenberg

tom,
on the chance you see this 3 years after your post, why do you need the 130 ohm resistor on your flasher?
thanks.
bob

[Ron/IA]

Tom - I have built your flashing unit, and will be installing it when the weather gets warmer.

Have you thought of adding 4-way flashing? If so, would it be too much to ask for how that wiring would be added?

Thanks,

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by fenbach

for tom Wesenberg

tom,
on the chance you see this 3 years after your post, why do you need the 130 ohm resistor on your flasher?
thanks.
bob

This project has been on the back burner since I made it. The resistor and capacitor control the duration of signals ON and the flash rate. You can change the ohms to get a different flash rate if you like.

I haven't thought about adding a switch for 4 way flashers, but that should be easy to do. I'm still looking for some period lights or LED's that are 6 volts and fit between the bars, or some other discrete location.

I've got other projects going and between all the snow and cold we've had this winter, it's hard to make much progress. It's a fight just to keep the machinery going and the snow off the drive.

[Ron/IA]

Thanks Tom, I could probably figure a 4-way flash system out; I thought maybe you had something figured out already.

I have been looking into 6 VDC LEDs, and if you Google that; I found some available in 5 mm diameter (nice size, bigger that circuit board LEDs) with flat tops.

[Ted Duke]

IMHO

Dangerous, YOU need turn signals.

Ted

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Ted Duke

IMHO

Dangerous, YOU need turn signals.

Ted

I've got them, my left hand.

[Mike V. Florida]

Let me tell you, here in south Florida around Ft. Lauderdale and Miami is you put on a flasher it tells the driver behind you that you wish to get in front of him and he responds with, no fricken way and speeds up to keep you from doing so.

As for hand signals, if you stick your hand out the window it is read as giving another the middle finger and all hell can break loose.

Glad to read that most of you live in a civilized area.

[fenbach]

i discovered that an EL-13 flasher uses a design much like tom's, altho it does require a load of at least one bulb to operate. unless your switch unit grounds the coil as does tom's. at least that how i read the diagram.
i tried a modern no. 550 flasher, but the pilot light wouldn't come on. it uses a transistor as a switch for the pilot light, but the transistor only lets a few micro amps thru. just enough to light a small LED. i'd be curious to know if 550s were entirely mechanical back in the day.

[MikeK]

Left, the old HD550 (12V) and 535 (6V) flashers were purely mechanical and built like a brick shithouse. You could bash and beat them all day and they worked. Right is the EL-13 chinese 12V flasher. Polarity sensitive, and the NPN can only drive ~50ma for the P terminal. Note the unsupported wire connections up in the sky! A couple good vibrations and it either shorts to the case or the wires break. Trash.