The Ford Barn

firetique57 · 12-16-2013, 06:22 PM

I bought a "rebuilt" model A rear end last year from someone who bought it at an estate sale. It looks to be in really good shape. Missing a speedo housing and emergency brake bands. It turns freely by hand and the axels are tight (no slop or wiggle) My question is the pumpkin housing didn't have any oil in it that I can tell so I'd like to flush it out to make sure there's no crud in it before I button everything up and put it back under my truck. Anything in particular I should use to flush it out?

larrys40 · 12-16-2013, 08:07 PM

Be careful on the term "Rebuilt". If it was truly rebuilt there shouldn't be any "Crud" in it. If it was not truly fully, and comprehensively rebuilt there could be anything in it. I would check for backlash, carrier/drive drag when rotating both axles, and yes, you can pull the plug to see what comes out. if it's nasty smelling, it will probably need a rebuild. If it's clean oil, and the other things I mentioned seem good, it may be useable. Of course a key to everything might be how the axle ends, keyways, threads, etc look. If bad it would need to come apart to repair.
Larry S

Tom Endy · 12-16-2013, 08:41 PM

Take the ten bolts off the left axle housing where it bolts to the banjo and pull the housing loose. Measure the thickness of the banjo gasket(s) on the left side just in case it was rebuilt. You can then grab the entire axle assembly that includes both axles, the carrier\differential, and the ring gear. It will all pull straight out as a complete assembly for inspection. If it shows signs of actually having been rebuilt put the axle assembly back in, install a new gasket of the same thickness you measured and you are good to go. Chances are that is not what you will find.

Quite often Model A assemblies advertised as rebuilt-overhauled-restored have only been re-painted. I have been rebuilding rear axle assemblies for 25 years as a cottage industry, yet I would never put one together and attempt to sell it. If someone contacts me and asks for a rebuilt unit, I can accommodate them. They wouldn't be calling me unless they knew what kind of work I do.

Every rebuilt rear axle assembly that leaves my shop has a tag hanging on it that reads "NO OIL IN THE BANJO". I tell the customer to leave the tag in place until he puts oil in it.

Tom Endy

Bader · 12-16-2013, 09:17 PM

Thank you tom! A reputable mechanic, peoplewho advertise by word of mouth are really the only people you can trust. Just because they have a business card does not make them trustworthy! Rattle can rebuilds are not rebuilds.

larrys40 · 12-16-2013, 10:55 PM

Firetique & Tom,
I agree with pulling the housing... I really didn't mention it because many aren't schooled in removing the rear spring, and pulling apart to determine. I too have rebuilt many rear ends over the last 30 some odd years. It might seem simple yet they are not always. Unfortunately many rear ends are skimped over or "repainted" as you have stated instead of restored, either because they think it will be OK or they lack the tools and knowledge to restore properly. Also.. unfortunately many don't give the rear axle "value" as they would an engine or transmission, so proper restoration is more often than not skimmed over.

We have parallel values and processes in our work. Thank you for your excellent articles.
Larry Shepard

firetique57 · 12-16-2013, 11:01 PM

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Thanks Tom,
Seeing as it is out of the truck and sitting on saw horses it won't be too much trouble to pull apart and have a look see. I'd rather be safe and look now at the beginning of the build than have to pull it out and do it after it's all put together.

Tom Wesenberg · 12-17-2013, 02:33 AM

Good plan to take it apart, as I'm sure it needs the 2 axle seals anyway, and now is a good time to clean it and use new gear oil.

firetique57 · 12-19-2013, 01:56 AM

Just wanted to follow up on my rear end. I have a new "tool" it's a digital inspection camera. Has an oil and water proof lighted lens on the end of a flexible 36" cable. I was able to snake this into the fill and drain holes on the banjo and have a look around. Everything appears to be brand new. I could visualize the bearings on either side of the carrier and could even see blueing on the gear from where they set the back lash. I was even able to observe everything moving when turning the drive shaft. I'm still thinking about taking it apart for a visual inspection but from what I could see it was rebuilt correctly.

supercrew · 01-13-2014, 05:09 PM

just rebuild my 31 model a Roadster but didn't touch a well working and no noise differential. I can turn my drive shaft and through looking through the banjo fill plug can see the ring gear turning but no rear wheel drive. It basically sat for a year unused and broke? any quess?

12-16-2013, 06:22 PM	#1
firetique57 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Walkertown, NC Posts: 105	Rear end question I bought a "rebuilt" model A rear end last year from someone who bought it at an estate sale. It looks to be in really good shape. Missing a speedo housing and emergency brake bands. It turns freely by hand and the axels are tight (no slop or wiggle) My question is the pumpkin housing didn't have any oil in it that I can tell so I'd like to flush it out to make sure there's no crud in it before I button everything up and put it back under my truck. Anything in particular I should use to flush it out?

12-16-2013, 08:07 PM	#2
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 2,032	Re: Rear end question Be careful on the term "Rebuilt". If it was truly rebuilt there shouldn't be any "Crud" in it. If it was not truly fully, and comprehensively rebuilt there could be anything in it. I would check for backlash, carrier/drive drag when rotating both axles, and yes, you can pull the plug to see what comes out. if it's nasty smelling, it will probably need a rebuild. If it's clean oil, and the other things I mentioned seem good, it may be useable. Of course a key to everything might be how the axle ends, keyways, threads, etc look. If bad it would need to come apart to repair. Larry S

12-16-2013, 08:41 PM	#3
Tom Endy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,168	Re: Rear end question Take the ten bolts off the left axle housing where it bolts to the banjo and pull the housing loose. Measure the thickness of the banjo gasket(s) on the left side just in case it was rebuilt. You can then grab the entire axle assembly that includes both axles, the carrier\differential, and the ring gear. It will all pull straight out as a complete assembly for inspection. If it shows signs of actually having been rebuilt put the axle assembly back in, install a new gasket of the same thickness you measured and you are good to go. Chances are that is not what you will find. Quite often Model A assemblies advertised as rebuilt-overhauled-restored have only been re-painted. I have been rebuilding rear axle assemblies for 25 years as a cottage industry, yet I would never put one together and attempt to sell it. If someone contacts me and asks for a rebuilt unit, I can accommodate them. They wouldn't be calling me unless they knew what kind of work I do. Every rebuilt rear axle assembly that leaves my shop has a tag hanging on it that reads "NO OIL IN THE BANJO". I tell the customer to leave the tag in place until he puts oil in it. Tom Endy

12-16-2013, 09:17 PM	#4
Bader Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Deer ridge Sask. can Posts: 181	Re: Rear end question Thank you tom! A reputable mechanic, peoplewho advertise by word of mouth are really the only people you can trust. Just because they have a business card does not make them trustworthy! Rattle can rebuilds are not rebuilds. Last edited by Bader; 12-16-2013 at 09:19 PM. Reason: Spelling

12-16-2013, 10:55 PM	#5
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 2,032	Re: Rear end question Firetique & Tom, I agree with pulling the housing... I really didn't mention it because many aren't schooled in removing the rear spring, and pulling apart to determine. I too have rebuilt many rear ends over the last 30 some odd years. It might seem simple yet they are not always. Unfortunately many rear ends are skimped over or "repainted" as you have stated instead of restored, either because they think it will be OK or they lack the tools and knowledge to restore properly. Also.. unfortunately many don't give the rear axle "value" as they would an engine or transmission, so proper restoration is more often than not skimmed over. We have parallel values and processes in our work. Thank you for your excellent articles. Larry Shepard

12-16-2013, 11:01 PM	#6
firetique57 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Walkertown, NC Posts: 105	Re: Rear end question Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks Tom, Seeing as it is out of the truck and sitting on saw horses it won't be too much trouble to pull apart and have a look see. I'd rather be safe and look now at the beginning of the build than have to pull it out and do it after it's all put together.

12-17-2013, 02:33 AM	#7
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Rear end question Good plan to take it apart, as I'm sure it needs the 2 axle seals anyway, and now is a good time to clean it and use new gear oil.

12-19-2013, 01:56 AM	#8
firetique57 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Walkertown, NC Posts: 105	Re: Rear end question Just wanted to follow up on my rear end. I have a new "tool" it's a digital inspection camera. Has an oil and water proof lighted lens on the end of a flexible 36" cable. I was able to snake this into the fill and drain holes on the banjo and have a look around. Everything appears to be brand new. I could visualize the bearings on either side of the carrier and could even see blueing on the gear from where they set the back lash. I was even able to observe everything moving when turning the drive shaft. I'm still thinking about taking it apart for a visual inspection but from what I could see it was rebuilt correctly.

01-13-2014, 05:09 PM	#9
supercrew Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 3	Re: Rear end question just rebuild my 31 model a Roadster but didn't touch a well working and no noise differential. I can turn my drive shaft and through looking through the banjo fill plug can see the ring gear turning but no rear wheel drive. It basically sat for a year unused and broke? any quess?