12 volt conversion

[Gino]

Hi, I'm thinking this subject has been hashed out plenty in the barn, but I could not find anything in the archives. So, should I buy a conversion kit from say, Snyders or Macks? Is this the way to go? I semi restored a pick up that was is rough shape and intend on using it as a daily driver, otherwise I would leave the 6 volt system in place. Thanks a lot Gino

[Tom Wesenberg]

I don't understand your thinking on 12 volts being more reliable. There is nothing about a 6 volt system that makes it unreliable, and in fact I consider it more reliable because the starter will hold up better than shooting it with 12 volts. All my 6 volt cars stay 6 volts and can be driven on a daily basis anywhere in the country. I would consider changing to 12 volts an unneccessary expense.

[Gino]

Thanks Tom I respect your advice always. I've been thinking about using a 12v ceramic space heater and maybe a radio. I drive my coupe year round ( stock ) as I enjoy the true Model A Expierience. But I have to tell you I do not tolerate the cold as I get older. Thanks Gino

[Tom Wesenberg]

I also don't tolerate the cold or extreme heat as well as I used to. A resistence heater takes a lot of electricity to run. I'd rather go with a hot water heater or hot air off the manifold. Since I wouldn't like to cut holes in the firewall, I'd go with a floor grate for the heat to enter.

Not sure what you had in mind for a radio, but lots of 6 volt radios are available.

[Jordan]

Get a 12v alternator form Ken Davis. Get a resister for the horn & coil. Some new bulbs & a modern bendix drive (not necessary, but recommended) and switch the wires on the back of the amp meter. It's a simple conversion... and one I don't regret doing. If you're not concerned for judging points or what people here say, it's a nice modification.

[jrelliott]

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I have a list of bulbs, coil # for 12V and other info if you are interested in doing the 12V conversion. I went the other way, back to 6V from 12V alternator. One thing you cannot do with an alternator that you can with a generator is start the vehicle by pushing when the battery is dead. If you are interested in the bulb chart and electrical parts list send me an email at [email protected]. The 12V alternator(modified for single and 3 wire operation) , adapter bracket, and coil are stored away in a box now.

[Mike V. Florida]

Remember to change the ignition system if you plan to listen to AM.

Here is some information if you feel you must change over.

http://vickyman.tripod.com/12volt.html

[Purdy Swoft]

Not suggesting that anybody must or should convert to 12 volt but here is how I converted my roadster. Install a 12 volt battery, positive ground. No wires need to be changed if you are using the original style wiring harnesses. I use a 3.0 ohm coil and no resister is needed. If you want to run an original or 6 volt coil,a resister will be needed. The original generator will charge whatever volt battery that is used, up to 40 volts. The generator doesn't know the difference and charges in amps. The original type 20 amp ammeter will work good. A good original cutout will also work. I use the Fun Projects 12 volt can style voltage regulator in place of the cutout so that I get voltage, actually amperage regulation. The third adjustable brush in the generator still regulates maximum charge rate. I set the adjustable brush for a maximum charge rate of eight to ten amp charge rate. This charge rate works good with the halogen bulbs from Australia that fit original sockets, if you've got good correctly shaped reflectors. The headlamps don't dim at idle like the original style bulbs. Original horns or electric wiper motors will need a resister the same as any 12 volt conversion. The starter works fine on 12 volt and doesn't need to turn much to crank the engine. The advantage is quick cranking with double the power to spare. A slightly weak six volt battery, in many cases won't have the power to spin the starter and fire the points with enough power to start the engine. Twelve volt has been the standard for the automobile industry for over 50 years. Twelve volt batteries and componets are available anywhere. I paid $117.95 for a two year six volt battery for one of my model A's a couple of weeks ago. In some cases a 12 volt battery will cost less. There is no visable changes with this setup. If you need more amperage for lots of accessories An alternator and negative ground will be necessary and will require som minor wiring changes.

[Patrick L.]

I'm not going to get into the voltage debate. I don't see anything wrong with a proper 6v system with a generator. But switching is easy along with sticking with the generator.
As far the heat situation, why not use a manifold heater ? I think they work good and quickly, especially in a coupe.

[1967 Ford]

Regarding 12 volt radios in 6 volt cars, someone probably still sells those 6 to 12 volt transformers. I used one to put a modern sound system in my 6 volt 1940 DeSoto some years ago and it worked fine. Since an A is positive ground maybe it would not work in that application. Anyone know how to use one of those converters in an A?

[Tom Endy]

I recall sitting in 9th grade auto shop class in 1950. My teacher was a young man name Mr. White. Mr. White told the class that in a few years the auto industry was going to change over from 6-volts to 12-volts. The reason was because they would be able to reduce the cross sectional area of copper wire, in other words go to a smaller gauge. This would save them millions of dollars a year in the cost of wire. I clearly remember what he said, but I didn't have clue of what he was talking about.

In 1955 the auto industry started changing over. I never did find out how Mr. White knew all this five years before it occurred. He must have read about it somewhere. As an adult in later years with acquired knowledge I fully understand what he was talking about. It has nothing to do with starter cranking speed, bright lights, etc., and all the other reason people convert a Model A, it has to do with the cost to build the car. If the industry had stayed with 6-volts today's modern cars with many electrical devices would have wire sizes the diameter of your thumb and cost would be sky high.

The absence of ammeters in later cars was also cost related. The amount of current that would have to pass through a single ammeter in a modern car would require a very large gauge wire.

I still see Mr. White occasionally as he is an old car guy. He is not so young now, but neither am I. We are both senior citizens, but I still address him as Mr. White.

Tom Endy

[Wallace]

Tom, this is a great post. I didn't know that ! By the way, you graduated a couple of years before I did in Texas....(where there was no kind of shop class)

[Chris in CT]

Originally Posted by Tom Endy

Mr. White told the class that in a few years the auto industry was going to change over from 6-volts to 12-volts. The reason was because they would be able to reduce the cross sectional area of copper wire, in other words go to a smaller gauge. This would save them millions of dollars a year in the cost of wire...

Tom Endy

Hi Guys, While Tom is a man whom I respect a great deal, there is another reason: Direct Current voltage drop. To make this easy, suppose in any given run there is a voltage drop of 2 volts. With a 6 volt battery, you would have 4 volts left at the device consuming the power. As the voltage drops, the amperage consumed rises (the reason for the heavier gauge wire at lower voltages). With a 12 volt battery, you would have 10 volts left at the device consuming power, and less current used, and less heat generated, and yes, a lighter gauge wire required. Those of you who want the math behind this can go to Ohm's Law.

I went to 12 volts neg. ground in my own roadster for safety, reliability, and ease of use with modern electrical equipment. And yes, I didn't have to do that, but it sure makes life smoother for me. And yes, I did convert my starter for a 12 volt field...

Happy Motoring to you all, and Happy Thanksgiving! We all have a great deal to be grateful for...

Chris

[jr-41ford]

I've been wanting to put a new satellite radio in my 28 Tudor and have no intention of converting my Model A to 12 volt/positive ground. Someone on here, suggested an inverter, with a link to a seller on eBay, so I bought a 12 volt, negative ground inverter from WoodysCustomShop off eBay for $60.00.

It works great. Now I need the 12 volt inverter for a Borg Warner Overdrive unit that I acquired. The solenoid requires 12 volts to make it work, so the inverter will be also used for that.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-8-12-Volt-...item35ce627f33

[30 A Ripper]

the previous owner did a 12v positive ground system. I would like 12v negative ground.

could you advise what need s to be changed on my 30A?

thanks, Dick

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The original generator will charge whatever volt battery that is used, up to 40 volts. The generator doesn't know the difference and charges in amps.

I don't doubt you Purdy, but if that is true why do the suppliers sell 12v conversion windings for the original generator?

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by jr-41ford

I've been wanting to put a new satellite radio in my 28 Tudor and have no intention of converting my Model A to 12 volt/positive ground. Someone on here, suggested an inverter, with a link to a seller on eBay, so I bought a 12 volt, negative ground inverter from WoodysCustomShop off eBay for $60.00.

It works great. Now I need the 12 volt inverter for a Borg Warner Overdrive unit that I acquired. The solenoid requires 12 volts to make it work, so the inverter will be also used for that.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-8-12-Volt-...item35ce627f33

Why not get a 6 volt solenoid?

Bob

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by jr-41ford

...I need the 12 volt inverter for a Borg Warner Overdrive unit that I acquired. The solenoid requires 12 volts to make it work...

Most of the Borg Warner overdrives out there had 6-volt solenoids. Should be easier to find one of those than to use an inverter.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by Sparky

I don't doubt you Purdy, but if that is true why do the suppliers sell 12v conversion windings for the original generator?

Some vendors carry the 12 volt field coils because some think that it is needed and are willing to spend the money. The electrical engineer that makes the 12 volt voltage regulator that I use told me that 12 volt field coils are not needed. The 12 volt field coils use more wire of smaller gauge. The larger gauge wire in my 6 volt field coils have been carrying the 12 volt current in my roadster for going on eight years. I've used 6 volt Ford starters on 12 volt in different applications since the sixties and never had a problem. Back in the day guys were always on the lookout for a six volt starter to use on 12 volt with the later 272-312 Y block motors.

[Tom Endy]

Originally Posted by 30 A Ripper

the previous owner did a 12v positive ground system. I would like 12v negative ground.

could you advise what need s to be changed on my 30A?

thanks, Dick

Dick:

Go to an auto parts store and see if you can find a "cigarette lighter" style power outlet made by Bell Industries, they sell for about $10. The unit is completely insulated from ground, constructed from hard plastic. You can bolt it under the right corner of the dash rail to existing bolts. There are two leads coming out of the unit that are fully insulated from ground. Wire it up to the car such that you have the correct polarity at the power outlet for your GPS\cell phone charger.

Tom Endy