Fine Point Interior

[Dave Pratt - IL]

We are in the process of restoring my daughter's '31 Deluxe Roadster. The goal is to restore it for Fine Point judging but drive it a lot afterwards. We don't expect to be the best of show but would like to get an Award of Excellence. Budget is somewhat of a concern. I am wondering approximately how much of a point deduction to expect from a LB interior and top on original irons. Anyone judged a car or had a car judged with this scinario? I know workmanship plays a large role. I am just wondering how many points the materials would lose.

[msmaron]

If the workmanship is that of the caliper that it should be you will do fine., make sure you read this months Model A News, Bill Rauchers article with A&L stems, hubcaps, hoses, etc and L&B interior and he received a 433 points very respectably.. It is a great article that talks about exactly what you are asking

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Here is how the breakdown happens on top using the 5000 point expanded system:
General appearance & symmetry: 60 points
Top Material: 60 points
Top Irons & Bows: 15 points
Trim & Edge Binding; 15 points
Prop Hardware: 15 points
Top hold-down Straps: 15 points
Fasteners: 10 points
Top Boot: 10 points

Total of 20 points compacted.



IMO, it takes someone who has done it a few times to get the top to look right. If they take 40%-50% off for appearance (wrinkles or craftsmanship) and they take 50% off for reproduction top material, you can do the math. Then factor in everything else on how you feel the Judge would evaluate it and then tally up your scores. Divide by 10 and you will have a feeling on how many points you might see deducted. Does this help?

I think the same will apply to the interior as they will be looking at pleat width, springs, binding, etc. along with carpet. Carpet is worth 100 points (10 points compacted) and the Interior is worth 1300 points (130 points compacted) in two areas.

(Also, do not forget that Side Curtains, Rods, & rear window frame add up to 5½ points in Area 10)

[d.j. moordigian]

Brent,

This is getting back to what Marco said about knowing.....so is the CORRECT stuff still
out there, or do you hunt and peck the vendors? How do you know what is exactly right?

Dudley

[peters180a/170b]

Bill Sturm as far as i know will "NOT" be taking on any new jobs. He has 11 to do and i was told thats it. LB. kit will get you over the 400 points as long as the rest of the car is mostly original and done correctly.You must find a really good shop to install correctly[workmanship will make the difference] I did a 1930 standard roadster w/ trunk and had LB. install years ago. Went to my first MAFCA meet..I lost points on workmanship for a total back then 16 points[453]. Later i corrected the front seat and showed it at MARC meet where i recieved a Henry Ford Award at 464. Its all in the timing.>>>>I was corrected by Vince 458 not 464 at Marc.. 462 AT A mafca meet with new owner..

[tuneman]

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Brent
What does compacted points mean? I hadn't heard of this term before. Can you speak on this a little in detail! Thanks in advance!!

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by tuneman

Brent
What does compacted points mean? I hadn't heard of this term before. Can you speak on this a little in detail! Thanks in advance!!

Simple

The old scoring had only 500 points the new system has 5000 points. So an area that had a top score of 60 now has 600 to play with. The idea is to allow a little more wiggle room. As an example some plated part has alot of visible scratches and another has one. With the new system it's supposed to be easier to deduct a point or two out of 60 instead of 6.

Once the scores are added together they are divided by 10 (COMPACTED) and rounded up so cars from the past can be compared to cars of today.

[peters180a/170b]

Sorry Vince .mispoke on numbers [it been a long time] but car scored that number at Mansville Conn. MAFCA meet a couple of years ago [so said the owner] .I do remember he did better then i did .

[RockHillWill]

Gary Karr got over 490 points in dearborn doing the upholstery himself. Another friend of mine won a Henry 2- years ago with a purchased kit and redid it himself and achieved 480 points. It can be done.

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by RockHillWill

Gary Karr got over 490 points in dearborn doing the upholstery himself. Another friend of mine won a Henry 2- years ago with a purchased kit and redid it himself and achieved 480 points. It can be done.

HENCE the reality that you do NOT Have to spend a fortune to do it correctly and get the points, Read your Model A Restorer and you will find out about the Cover article!

[Marco Tahtaras]

First I have to say YES, you can reach your goal with quality workmanship and attention to details. By all means go for it!

Now I'd like to address some of the other responses. Everyone seems to be lumping all LB kits together as being equal regardless of body style. That would be a mistake. Authenticity of their kits varies considerably by body style. In general closed models fare the best. '30-31 open models are generally the worst. As an example see the pics below. The LB version shown isn't the best example but it's on Ebay this morning and all I could find. Note the difference in color and grain. In all fairness most folks have never seen anything but the LB version so they would likely think mine looks odd. Additionally the LB version has the seat trim sewn over foam rubber instead of individually stuffed (with cotton) pleats. There are numerous other issues but that gives you an idea. As far as judging goes it will certainly vary from one meet to another depending on the experience of the judges participating.

[Dave Pratt - IL]

Thanks everyone. Great input!

[peters180a/170b]

THIS is a edit for Vince ... 1990 Dearborn ,Henry Ford Award .. I went back and looked at issue July/Aug 1990 MARC meet [help me out here Vince] where are the points listed??? I went back to MAFCA meet Mass.Sept/Oct 1988 again [Help me out Vince] where were my points listed.. it did say Excellent Restoration [special Meet Class = 425 or more] [WHICH I MUST SAY "IS" a VERY GOOD IDEA how to list winners] Finally I went back to new owner of my roadster Mansfield Mass.. 462 MAFCA Meet 2006 ..I believe he did do better then i did 18 years later,That shows i did a good job on a restoration to hold up 18 years later! Vince [help me out please] I went to school in the Bronx 1962 second grade I am having a problem finding my grades Immaculate Conception ,Gun Hill rd. ..Thanks Vince , you seem to know my scores better then i do....

[peters180a/170b]

Yep, and i remember them too... Bar of soap in ones mouth ,hit by the ruler or a flying chalk board eracer[filled with power] .Yep those were the days.. I can say i have problems with my knees at my age now from praying too much back then.. [ hoping to see third grade...]...

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by forever4

Pete
I talked to Sister Elizabeth VanFlivver in the records office at Our Lady of Immaculate Restoration, and she said you were the slipperiest student they remember.

.


.

[Charles Reese]

Very timely set of posts! I am currently struggling with most of these same issues. I have had the good fortune of sharing e-mails with several highly knowledgeable interior folks but again, even when they know what’s right, the proper materials to reproduce them just don’t exist. To add to my confusion, i cannot even garner a consensus as to the color for my particular body style and month of assembly.

It seems very unlikely that, as a sole restorer, I will ever happen upon the ‘correct’ upholstery materials, let alone have the ability to personally sew them to specifications. For example, the samples from the kit companies vary extremely widely as to their materials/finish/patterns, etc. Likewise, the cowl/door/hip panels for my open vehicle were originally a unique cardboard material with a pattern pressed into them (thanks to the folks on FB that have provided photos). None of the current ‘kit’ providers I have contacted are able to provide this … all glue the seat material over a cardboard panel. The owner of our town’s oldest auto upholstery shop was kind enough to contact several of his suppliers but with no luck.

As noted above, one of the most highly rated upholsters is retiring. I hope his wealth of information will somehow be retained for future restorers (upholstery book, etc.). I also look forward to the upcoming Judging Standards revisions for more detailed guidance.

[HoarseWhisperer]

It's funny, the comments I get on an original interior. They always say, "You can get kits you know; you should replace it".

It's getting beat up because I drive a lot, but once it's gone, it's gone.

It will be a sad day when it gives up the ghost and I'm forced to replace it.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by HoarseWhisperer

It's funny, the comments I get on an original interior. They always say, "You can get kits you know; you should replace it".

It's getting beat up because I drive a lot, but once it's gone, it's gone.

It will be a sad day when it gives up the ghost and I'm forced to replace it.

Many folks just don't "get it" and prefer anything as long as it appears fresh and new. Very few of us really appreciate original stuff such as that. It's important to note that original interiors in open models is extremely rare due to their exposure to the elements. It's too bad that not many folks are interested in the finer details that can only be learned from such examples. When they are gone they are GONE FOREVER!

[HoarseWhisperer]

It's great to hear your comments, Marco.

It's not often I hear validation of my reasons to hold on to it as long as I can.

Thanks! Here's the rumble seat. Genuine "artificial" leather and cardboard!

[henry494]

"HoarseWhisperer"

Wow. That is a beautiful original interior. Could you take the time to post a few more photos, to include the door and kick panels? Please resist any and all temptation to do anything to the interior and rumble seat other than maintain them!

Thanks,

Dave Lopes