The Ford Barn

roccaas · 05-01-2013, 11:52 AM

Car starts dependably enough to drive daily if I had to.

Saturday it won't start: good on starter, hot spark, gas at carb, air at carb. Mess with GAV and choke. She spins but won't catch-very weird.

I had back flushed the radiator and block the week before and filled with distilled water, car ran fine then.

Under hood I notice water leak where I didn't tighten hose clamp on lower hose.

Add 2.5 gallons of distilled water! Almost everything had drained out in 1 week, but dried up on concrete floor. Radiator was empty.

Car cranks on first turn.

Did Henry add a "low coolant" sensor to keep the car from starting?

How does the coolant system thwart the ignition system?

Stumped, but I did fix the hose clamp and all the water's staying put now!

Mitch//pa · 05-01-2013, 12:08 PM

make sure the water did not go into the oil (crankcase). i have seen instances from flushing a bunch of crap out of an engine that it could develop a head gasket leak internally as the crud was holding things together. the water could also be getting into the cylinders causing it not to fire.....just a guess

roccaas · 05-01-2013, 05:19 PM

Pulled dipstick because Henry decided to put it right under the block water intake.

Oily oil, no water.

Bob-A · 05-01-2013, 07:08 PM

roccaas,

Your "A" likes you

and would not start without any coolent in it because if it did start. It might have developed some serious problems

for both it and you

. Be thankful your "A" likes you........

Bob-A

Chuck Sea/Tac · 05-01-2013, 10:12 PM

If it's spinning over, but not firing, then you have a second problem. Have you pulled the plugs?are they wet? Do you have spark at the plugs (as opposed to the coil wire?

BILL WILLIAMSON · 05-01-2013, 11:35 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

In the back of the kitchen drawer I found a small cheap spark tester screwdriver. Crunched the handle & took out the neon tube. Tastefully lashed it to my coil wire with 2 black mini tie straps. GREAT little spark tester & light show! Bill W.

roccaas · 05-02-2013, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac

If it's spinning over, but not firing, then you have a second problem. Have you pulled the plugs?are they wet? Do you have spark at the plugs (as opposed to the coil wire?

Had coil spark and #1 plug spark. Gas at carb, gas at #1 cylinder.

ford3 · 05-02-2013, 10:02 AM

ok, you have spark and gas, there is no reason it wont start unless there is another problem, one thing to try, have some one turn engine over, and while engine is spinning squirt a small amount of starting fluid at the mouth of carb, use very little, that stuff is potenate, only use it after engine is spinning, it wouldn hurt to run a compression check to just check engine condition

roccaas · 05-02-2013, 03:09 PM

I could have put some acetylene in the carb, but I was getting gas and spark to at least cylinder #1. Compression test is 60 on all 4 cylinders with throttle open two weeks ago.

No, this really has to be something with having a (virtually) empty radiator. Could the water pump not having anything to "pull" from the top of the head change anything? I know the Flathead V8 guys dread the boiling engine while the top (hot side) dual pumps pull steam.

Could a lower water level (pressure?) in the block jackets change something with the ignition/start circuit?

I may go and drain the radiator again and see if I can repeat the experiment as I have only a single instance. I need to run 3 gallons of white vinegar anyway....

tomwhi · 05-02-2013, 03:23 PM

no water didnt have nothing to do with it not starting

Will N · 05-02-2013, 03:24 PM

I don't think it has anything to do with the water. I've started a completely dry engine for a second or two just to see it it works before filling up the radiator. You must have jostled something while you were flushing it out. Are you getting a good spark at all four plugs? Pull the plugs and shoot some compressed air into each cylinder just to double check that you don't have a leaky head gasket like Mitch mentioned. If you get a mist coming back at you, you have a leak somewhere, and the moisture will make starting it difficult. I know, my head gasket leaked on my T this winter, and I couldn't get it started after an hour of hand cranking it!

ford3 · 05-02-2013, 05:39 PM

water has nothing to do with the engine not firing, check compression on all 4 cylinders, use an induction timiing lite on all 4 plugs, use timing pin to find top dead center , draw a white line on the crank pulley, and one on timing cover in line with the one on pulley, put induction timing lite on number ! plug and turn engine over with key on, see if the marks line up with #1 cylinderif you dont have a 6v lite just use a 12v battery to hook the lite to, it wont know the difference, running out of water has nothing to do with ign, just like a flat tire has
noththing to do with oil pressure, try starting engine on starting fluid, if it wont fire on that stuff you have another major problem to find, and its not because of an empty radiator

05-01-2013, 12:08 PM	#2
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: "No Coolant; No Start" Model A Bob Marley make sure the water did not go into the oil (crankcase). i have seen instances from flushing a bunch of crap out of an engine that it could develop a head gasket leak internally as the crud was holding things together. the water could also be getting into the cylinders causing it not to fire.....just a guess

05-01-2013, 05:19 PM	#3
roccaas Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 1,300	Re: "No Coolant; No Start" Model A Bob Marley Pulled dipstick because Henry decided to put it right under the block water intake. Oily oil, no water. __________________ 20 years ago we had Johnny Cash, Steve Jobs, and Bob Hope. Now we have no Cash, no Jobs, and no Hope...please don't let Kevin Bacon die!

05-01-2013, 07:08 PM	#4
Bob-A Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central FL, USA Posts: 1,182	Re: "No Coolant; No Start" Model A Bob Marley roccaas, Your "A" likes you and would not start without any coolent in it because if it did start. It might have developed some serious problems for both it and you. Be thankful your "A" likes you........ Bob-A

05-01-2013, 10:12 PM	#5
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,411	Re: "No Coolant; No Start" Model A Bob Marley If it's spinning over, but not firing, then you have a second problem. Have you pulled the plugs?are they wet? Do you have spark at the plugs (as opposed to the coil wire?

05-01-2013, 11:35 PM	#6
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: "No Coolant; No Start" Model A Bob Marley Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) In the back of the kitchen drawer I found a small cheap spark tester screwdriver. Crunched the handle & took out the neon tube. Tastefully lashed it to my coil wire with 2 black mini tie straps. GREAT little spark tester & light show! Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

05-01-2013, 11:52 AM	#1
roccaas Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 1,300	"No Coolant; No Start" Model A Bob Marley Car starts dependably enough to drive daily if I had to. Saturday it won't start: good on starter, hot spark, gas at carb, air at carb. Mess with GAV and choke. She spins but won't catch-very weird. I had back flushed the radiator and block the week before and filled with distilled water, car ran fine then. Under hood I notice water leak where I didn't tighten hose clamp on lower hose. Add 2.5 gallons of distilled water! Almost everything had drained out in 1 week, but dried up on concrete floor. Radiator was empty. Car cranks on first turn. Did Henry add a "low coolant" sensor to keep the car from starting? How does the coolant system thwart the ignition system? Stumped, but I did fix the hose clamp and all the water's staying put now! __________________ 20 years ago we had Johnny Cash, Steve Jobs, and Bob Hope. Now we have no Cash, no Jobs, and no Hope...please don't let Kevin Bacon die!

05-02-2013, 10:02 AM	#8
ford3 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: oroville calif. Posts: 1,453	Re: "No Coolant; No Start" Model A Bob Marley ok, you have spark and gas, there is no reason it wont start unless there is another problem, one thing to try, have some one turn engine over, and while engine is spinning squirt a small amount of starting fluid at the mouth of carb, use very little, that stuff is potenate, only use it after engine is spinning, it wouldn hurt to run a compression check to just check engine condition

05-02-2013, 03:09 PM	#9
roccaas Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 1,300	Re: "No Coolant; No Start" Model A Bob Marley I could have put some acetylene in the carb, but I was getting gas and spark to at least cylinder #1. Compression test is 60 on all 4 cylinders with throttle open two weeks ago. No, this really has to be something with having a (virtually) empty radiator. Could the water pump not having anything to "pull" from the top of the head change anything? I know the Flathead V8 guys dread the boiling engine while the top (hot side) dual pumps pull steam. Could a lower water level (pressure?) in the block jackets change something with the ignition/start circuit? I may go and drain the radiator again and see if I can repeat the experiment as I have only a single instance. I need to run 3 gallons of white vinegar anyway.... __________________ 20 years ago we had Johnny Cash, Steve Jobs, and Bob Hope. Now we have no Cash, no Jobs, and no Hope...please don't let Kevin Bacon die!

05-02-2013, 03:23 PM	#10
tomwhi Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 29	Re: "No Coolant; No Start" Model A Bob Marley no water didnt have nothing to do with it not starting

05-02-2013, 03:24 PM	#11
Will N Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,251	Re: "No Coolant; No Start" Model A Bob Marley I don't think it has anything to do with the water. I've started a completely dry engine for a second or two just to see it it works before filling up the radiator. You must have jostled something while you were flushing it out. Are you getting a good spark at all four plugs? Pull the plugs and shoot some compressed air into each cylinder just to double check that you don't have a leaky head gasket like Mitch mentioned. If you get a mist coming back at you, you have a leak somewhere, and the moisture will make starting it difficult. I know, my head gasket leaked on my T this winter, and I couldn't get it started after an hour of hand cranking it!

05-02-2013, 05:39 PM	#12
ford3 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: oroville calif. Posts: 1,453	Re: "No Coolant; No Start" Model A Bob Marley water has nothing to do with the engine not firing, check compression on all 4 cylinders, use an induction timiing lite on all 4 plugs, use timing pin to find top dead center , draw a white line on the crank pulley, and one on timing cover in line with the one on pulley, put induction timing lite on number ! plug and turn engine over with key on, see if the marks line up with #1 cylinderif you dont have a 6v lite just use a 12v battery to hook the lite to, it wont know the difference, running out of water has nothing to do with ign, just like a flat tire has noththing to do with oil pressure, try starting engine on starting fluid, if it wont fire on that stuff you have another major problem to find, and its not because of an empty radiator