The Ford Barn

Duke · 07-31-2022, 07:46 PM

I purchased some NOS bearings and races for my late 32 banjo. I was installing them today and when I cleaned the old packing grease on one of the races that goes in the axle tube I found two small rust pits. I think it is likely not a good idea to use it or am I worrying about nothing? These are old parts in old Ford boxes.
Thanks

cas3 · 07-31-2022, 07:50 PM

Can you feel them with your finger nail? I would be tempted to use them being the cheap ass that I am. Prolly still better than the chinese bearngs

Jack E/NJ · 07-31-2022, 07:52 PM

>>>I found two small rust pits.>>>

One picture is worth more than six words. 8^)

Lawson Cox · 07-31-2022, 07:54 PM

Two "small rust pits" wouldn't cause me to skip a heart beat or lose a wink of sleep over it. Honestly, or as my two year old daughter, who is now 58 used to ask, "Really and lively, daddy?" Yes, "really and lively". Go for it.

VeryTangled · 07-31-2022, 07:56 PM

A fella can get a bunch of tips on how to post pictures by watching this seven minute video. https://youtu.be/CGijbl1bfnI

Duke · 07-31-2022, 08:03 PM

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Here is some pictures, yes I can feel them.

petehoovie · 07-31-2022, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke

Here is some pictures, yes I can feel them.

USE THEM!

David J · 07-31-2022, 09:55 PM

Surface is not compromised so i would call it an " oil retention groove " .

Much rather use that NOS one than modern crappola.

Duke · 08-01-2022, 12:01 AM

Makes me feel better. I have never done this before and am learning as I go.
Thanks

Mart · 08-01-2022, 02:45 AM

Scrape a razor blade across the surface to make sure nothing is sticking up.

Bored&Stroked · 08-01-2022, 08:23 AM

Those bearings are not easy to find and NOS ones are the only way to go. Clean any rust that is on them off (maybe some Scotchbrite) and you should be good to go.

Also, make sure your pinion pre-load is correct and that your ring and pinion mesh is correct. You'll need to get some of the "yellow stuff" to check out the contact pattern and take the time to get the side gasket thicknesses correct (side to side).

You can't just put it back together the way it was (though the original gasket thicknesses are nice to know).

Bored&Stroked · 08-01-2022, 08:24 AM

And make sure you replace the outer axle seals - not hard to do, just need to make a tool to drive them in place.

Tim Ayers · 08-01-2022, 09:38 AM

That's the problem with that cosmoline product they used back in the day. I've purchased NOS engine bearings (much softer than your race) and they were ruined after getting them cleaned.

The cosmoline eat into the bearing surface. Not sure what it is made of, but years of sitting around in it is actually not kind to delicate metal surfaces.

Duke · 08-01-2022, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Those bearings are not easy to find and NOS ones are the only way to go. Clean any rust that is on them off (maybe some Scotchbrite) and you should be good to go.

Also, make sure your pinion pre-load is correct and that your ring and pinion mesh is correct. You'll need to get some of the "yellow stuff" to check out the contact pattern and take the time to get the side gasket thicknesses correct (side to side).

You can't just put it back together the way it was (though the original gasket thicknesses are nice to know).

Any good tech on how to do this? I have read the really good model a write up. I was going to build the tool out of an old spider cross, but it is too hard to drill. The old service bulletins talk about doing it by feel?

Bored&Stroked · 08-01-2022, 12:17 PM

I believe that VanPelt may have a book on rebuilding a rear - as well as maybe Vern Tardel.

You need to be able to set the pinion preload - can be done a variety of ways. I use an inch-lbs torque wrench. I first use it to set the pinion preload, then I also use it to see what type of overall preload the whole mess has (when setting side clearances). It is very important that you setup the gasket thicknesses on each side to get the proper gear mesh, backlash and overall preload.

I have a couple good articles/threads I scavenged over the years - will probably help you a bit. Also, the guys who build quick changes tend to create quite a few good articles on these types of rear ends (even though they are quick changes they're working with). The principles are much the same.

Drop me a DM with an email and I'll forward you a few that should help you. The one from 'Winters' includes a section for setting up a V8 quick-change, review the specs there - very similar to a V8 banjo.

Take care,
B&S

07-31-2022, 07:46 PM	#1
Duke Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Vernon, BC Posts: 202	Rust pit in new bearing race? I purchased some NOS bearings and races for my late 32 banjo. I was installing them today and when I cleaned the old packing grease on one of the races that goes in the axle tube I found two small rust pits. I think it is likely not a good idea to use it or am I worrying about nothing? These are old parts in old Ford boxes. Thanks

07-31-2022, 07:50 PM	#2
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,612	Re: Rust pit in new bearing race? Can you feel them with your finger nail? I would be tempted to use them being the cheap ass that I am. Prolly still better than the chinese bearngs

07-31-2022, 07:52 PM	#3
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,178	Re: Rust pit in new bearing race? >>>I found two small rust pits.>>> One picture is worth more than six words. 8^)

07-31-2022, 07:54 PM	#4
Lawson Cox Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Above the gnat line in Georgia Posts: 7,009	Re: Rust pit in new bearing race? Two "small rust pits" wouldn't cause me to skip a heart beat or lose a wink of sleep over it. Honestly, or as my two year old daughter, who is now 58 used to ask, "Really and lively, daddy?" Yes, "really and lively". Go for it. __________________ Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer to the end, the faster it goes. It is better to be seen, than viewed. "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm".

07-31-2022, 07:56 PM	#5
VeryTangled Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: (Not far enough...) Outside of DC Posts: 3,387	Re: Rust pit in new bearing race? A fella can get a bunch of tips on how to post pictures by watching this seven minute video. https://youtu.be/CGijbl1bfnI __________________ -Jeff H Have you thought about supporting the Early Ford V-8 Foundation Museum?

07-31-2022, 09:55 PM	#8
David J Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: St Croix Falls WI Posts: 2,080	Re: Rust pit in new bearing race? Surface is not compromised so i would call it an " oil retention groove " . Much rather use that NOS one than modern crappola.

08-01-2022, 12:01 AM	#9
Duke Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Vernon, BC Posts: 202	Re: Rust pit in new bearing race? Makes me feel better. I have never done this before and am learning as I go. Thanks

08-01-2022, 02:45 AM	#10
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,795	Re: Rust pit in new bearing race? Scrape a razor blade across the surface to make sure nothing is sticking up.

08-01-2022, 08:23 AM	#11
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,240	Re: Rust pit in new bearing race? Those bearings are not easy to find and NOS ones are the only way to go. Clean any rust that is on them off (maybe some Scotchbrite) and you should be good to go. Also, make sure your pinion pre-load is correct and that your ring and pinion mesh is correct. You'll need to get some of the "yellow stuff" to check out the contact pattern and take the time to get the side gasket thicknesses correct (side to side). You can't just put it back together the way it was (though the original gasket thicknesses are nice to know).

08-01-2022, 08:24 AM	#12
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,240	Re: Rust pit in new bearing race? And make sure you replace the outer axle seals - not hard to do, just need to make a tool to drive them in place.

08-01-2022, 09:38 AM	#13
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,271	Re: Rust pit in new bearing race? That's the problem with that cosmoline product they used back in the day. I've purchased NOS engine bearings (much softer than your race) and they were ruined after getting them cleaned. The cosmoline eat into the bearing surface. Not sure what it is made of, but years of sitting around in it is actually not kind to delicate metal surfaces.

08-01-2022, 12:17 PM	#15
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,240	Re: Rust pit in new bearing race? I believe that VanPelt may have a book on rebuilding a rear - as well as maybe Vern Tardel. You need to be able to set the pinion preload - can be done a variety of ways. I use an inch-lbs torque wrench. I first use it to set the pinion preload, then I also use it to see what type of overall preload the whole mess has (when setting side clearances). It is very important that you setup the gasket thicknesses on each side to get the proper gear mesh, backlash and overall preload. I have a couple good articles/threads I scavenged over the years - will probably help you a bit. Also, the guys who build quick changes tend to create quite a few good articles on these types of rear ends (even though they are quick changes they're working with). The principles are much the same. Drop me a DM with an email and I'll forward you a few that should help you. The one from 'Winters' includes a section for setting up a V8 quick-change, review the specs there - very similar to a V8 banjo. Take care, B&S