Ford Barn Orphan?

[hotrodalley]

After reading through the " What is the best overhead conversion " thread, I realized that I am somewhat of an orphan. I grew up restoring model A's with my dad who was "stickler" on originality which has contributed to my own set of "rules" when it comes to modifications to my Model A's and Early Fords.

Because I absolutely enjoy driving my Model A's, there are a few things I do to make them a bit more roadworthy, and to give them a bit more power. The "Orphan Complex" comes to fitting into the Ford Barn or the H.A.M.B. Sometimes I feel that I dont really belong in either forum. Here's why.

I have a "rule" that I follow when changing or adding to Henry's blueprint, and that is,

I WILL NOT DO ANYTHING TO A VEHICLE THAT CANNOT SIMPLY BE UNBOLTED TO RETURN TO BONE STOCK.

That being said, I have thoroughly enjoyed researching and learning about period correct modifications and searching for these period parts to build some fun cars.

Keep in mind that I do have original/stock Model A's, but I also have Model A's that have "lost" their fenders and have finned aluminum period high compression heads and multiple carbs. Sometimes they even sport 16" wheels as I alternate between 19's and 16's. Again, nothing cut, no frame boxing, no modern billet etc.

I find the Ford Barn Forum great, and feel much more part of it than the H.A.M. B. because I cannot relate to the more major and permanent modifications that are handled on the H.A.M.B.

In addition, I feel that even though I may have a car that appears modified such as a hi boy, it can easily be put back to original very easily. This is in contrast to those "original looking" cars that have cut crossmembers required to install 4 speed or 5 speed transmissions, open drivelines, cut holes in the firewall to accomodate air conditioning and so on.

Those period modifications, sometimes classified as early "hot rods" are actually more closely aligned. In some strange way of thinking, I feel that when following my personal rule for modifications, I am preserving the same era of the Model A as it was used for family transportation as well as personalization and modifications for speed. In addition I feel that I am contributing to the preservation of the actual period use of the Model A in the 30's and 40's in contrast to the "modern" modifications discussed on the H.A.M.B.

Guess I'm wondering how others view modifications and where is the limit to acceptability to the Ford Barn before being relegated to the H.A.M.B.

[Purdy Swoft]

Here is a view under the hood of our roadster. If this tells you anything, I pretty much share your views exactly. I like the period accessories like the fumaze, cast iron dual updraft manifolds, performance grind camshafts , high compression heads, hot coils and souped up ignition, even straight exhaust or gutted mufflers. I've got a couple that are mostly original except for whatever repro parts that was used. Ive got some without fenders and one on 16 inch wheels. I run my roadster 12 volts with the original generator. I run my 29 strip down with the condenser connected to the coil. I enjoy this kind of stuff . All of it either improves performance or is a novelty to me . any of this stuff could be unbolted and replaced by the next keeper if desired. I run the original drivetrain and mechanical brakes on all of mine, no overdrives. I even painted a couple with Rustoleum and another with Kirker. The purist often object to a lot of this but its really nothing serious. I'm a member of the H.A.M.B. I just enjoy looking and reading the posts. I really get a kick out of some of the sign offs and avatars. I probably don't know enough to post there . I don't recall any fights there.

I don't care what others do to their cars . I draw the limit at such things as electronic ignition , Weber carbs , plastic fans, overdrives, four and five speed transmissions that require butchery of the center cross member, hydraulic brakes, F100 steering, tube shocks and excessive outside accessories on the body. This is just my feelings and I never make negative comments to others that use or like these mods.
Sort of like politics, I try and keep it to myself. If you ever notice, its always the purist that is outraged by simple mods . .For me owning a model A is about the fun and enjoyment of the car. Purdy

[John Duden]

Originally Posted by hotrodalley

After reading through the " What is the best overhead conversion " thread, I realized that I am somewhat of an orphan. I grew up restoring model A's with my dad who was "stickler" on originality which has contributed to my own set of "rules" when it comes to modifications to my Model A's and Early Fords.

Because I absolutely enjoy driving my Model A's, there are a few things I do to make them a bit more roadworthy, and to give them a bit more power. The "Orphan Complex" comes to fitting into the Ford Barn or the H.A.M.B. Sometimes I feel that I dont really belong in either forum. Here's why.

I have a "rule" that I follow when changing or adding to Henry's blueprint, and that is,

I WILL NOT DO ANYTHING TO A VEHICLE THAT CANNOT SIMPLY BE UNBOLTED TO RETURN TO BONE STOCK.

That being said, I have thoroughly enjoyed researching and learning about period correct modifications and searching for these period parts to build some fun cars.

Keep in mind that I do have original/stock Model A's, but I also have Model A's that have "lost" their fenders and have finned aluminum period high compression heads and multiple carbs. Sometimes they even sport 16" wheels as I alternate between 19's and 16's. Again, nothing cut, no frame boxing, no modern billet etc.

I find the Ford Barn Forum great, and feel much more part of it than the H.A.M. B. because I cannot relate to the more major and permanent modifications that are handled on the H.A.M.B.

In addition, I feel that even though I may have a car that appears modified such as a hi boy, it can easily be put back to original very easily. This is in contrast to those "original looking" cars that have cut crossmembers required to install 4 speed or 5 speed transmissions, open drivelines, cut holes in the firewall to accomodate air conditioning and so on.

Those period modifications, sometimes classified as early "hot rods" are actually more closely aligned. In some strange way of thinking, I feel that when following my personal rule for modifications, I am preserving the same era of the Model A as it was used for family transportation as well as personalization and modifications for speed. In addition I feel that I am contributing to the preservation of the actual period use of the Model A in the 30's and 40's in contrast to the "modern" modifications discussed on the H.A.M.B.

Guess I'm wondering how others view modifications and where is the limit to acceptability to the Ford Barn before being relegated to the H.A.M.B.

i to have a belief that i will not change anything unless i can bolt it with exhisting holes, or make a clamp that can be taken off with NO modifications to the car, it can be taken off with not sign of ever being on
John

[Mike V. Florida]

You are good and wise men!

[Hotrodfil]

Another orphan here it seems...

[socalplanedoc]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

There's a lot of us orphans I really like original cars, to look at.

I run a 3-wire delco alternator, 12V pos, Weber Downdraft, 4psi cooling w/recovery, never-leak pump, individual fuses - it's about to get an F100 steering box. The fuses and alt light are hidden (but the light casts out so it can easily be seen when lit) - I painted everything flat black, ran a whole new wire harness but used period-looking cloth-covered wire, the recover tank is made from soldered brass sheet.
No new holes or modified original parts were used to create this result....
Hey, it's a driver, I drive it to work. I drive it full-time when my kids visit and take-off with my modern. I like it. My 84 year old Dad loves it. It's still earning it's keep.
Occasionally I get some guy come up to me and want to look under the hood, then start pontificating about how it should be original and if Henry did it it much have been good and yada yada yada... I close the hood and tell him to bite me. When someone starts to go off like that I tend to add gas (the cheapo alochol-laced pump stuff) to the fire....
oh btw, I've got trailer brakes and an infotainment system in my Dakota, no one harrases me about those...

I'm still looking for a good wiper solution, that vacuum powered thing kinda... well, it sucks. had one on my '46 3/4 ton P/U too.. didnt like it then either ....
I've mulled over making a new panel that would bolt-on to the existing mountings that would have a GPS, Satellite Radio... putting my son's boom-box in the trunk just to *really* get the "originality-nazis" blood boiling but heck, I got a plane to work on...

OK, gotta fire-up the Fordenstein and go to my office....

[newshirt]

Originally Posted by hotrodalley

I have a "rule" that I follow when changing or adding to Henry's blueprint, and that is,

I WILL NOT DO ANYTHING TO A VEHICLE THAT CANNOT SIMPLY BE UNBOLTED TO RETURN TO BONE STOCK.

There's a big problem with this. It is probably rare that mods made today will ever be reversed by future generations.

Here's why:
1. It takes a person dedicated to the RG&JS to reverse non-period changes to an antique car. "Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

2. Reversing changes costs money. Most people cannot afford to change back to original (or even original-looking) parts. Wheels, for example, are a huge expense, even today while original wheels are still easy to find.

3. The cost of original parts will go out of sight. A $100 generator now, will cost $5,000 in fifty years. Who's going to spend that kind of money reversing your "bolt-on" alternator mod?

4. Future owners will not necessarily know which parts are period-correct and which are not.

So... every modernization you make is likely permanent, regardless of how small or how simple it is to reverse.

[socalplanedoc]

Originally Posted by newshirt

So... every modernization you make is likely permanent, regardless of how small or how simple it is to reverse.

they'll only be 5Gs if people will pay for them.. and if they'll pay for them they must have the money.. supply and demand...

besides, everyone knows in 50 years we'll all be using Mr Fusions charging batteries the size of a walnut driving electric motors sitting inside the wheels.. and you can bet they'll bolt on to original holes

[John Duden]

Originally Posted by socalplanedoc

they'll only be 5Gs if people will pay for them.. and if they'll pay for them they must have the money.. supply and demand...

besides, everyone knows in 50 years we'll all be using Mr Fusions charging batteries the size of a walnut driving electric motors sitting inside the wheels.. and you can bet they'll bolt on to original holes

NEVER! i prefer deisel

[ronn]

Interesting view Newshirt, but my guess is the price of A's never goes up. Heck, the prices haven't gone up at all if you consider what a greenback is worth nowadays....

if anything, they've come down!

[CarlG]

Hi,
My name is Carl
and I am a Model A orphan

I'm here to learn abour the 12 steps and receive support from the group as I go down the orphan highway.

[Tacoma Bob]

Remember the 4th step.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Both the barn and the HAMB show a lot of young people seriously into early Fords with early Ford works, though not necessarily stock...
Likely early Ford cultism is here to stay...but I think that experience so far shows that anything producing rotary power will find its way into Fords.
On the original specs, though, current trend is to rely on information generated by random strangers on the internet and there is a strong unwillingness to purchase "books", as we used to call them, with actually supportable information.

[M2M]

Discussing which modifications, if any, are acceptable is like discussing politics or religion...everyone has their own ideas about what’s right and wrong.

I too fall in the semi-purist faction or what I call being "half-pregnant"...which dictates that changing Henry's formula is okay as long as you stick to period correct accessories and modifications.

I don’t like the idea of cutting things up and making holes but the fact is some period modifications required exactly that, see:

http://modelabasics.com/Accessories/...nsmissions.pdf

I think the Model A world is big enough to fit everyone.

[Bob-A]

I guess I'll add my .02 cents worth,

I call myself a "Traditionalist". Who likes to keep things "era correct" and
not necessarily factory original. My '31 deluxe roadster was rebuilt back in the 50's with a B block, new paint, top & upholstery by one of its former owners. The car runs good, but is shabby enough that it looks like the 109,000 miles on it are real and they are. I've added a late 20's early 30's
Packard spotlight, extra trumphet style horn, late 40's driving/passing lights, separate rear stop light, etc., to it. If you know who Andy Hardy (Mickey Roony) was in late 30's early 40's Hollywood movies and his 'A' roadster. That is what I'm kind'a aiming for. However, I do not think I'll repeat that two-tone paint job of his.

I learned the error's-of-my-ways back in my bad biker days of chopping,
shaving, torch axing, etc. And will never do that to a Harley, Model-A or any old vehicle again: I promise!

It is a free country and you can do anything to your ride you want.
And that is why I voted straight Republican today.

Bob-A

[socalplanedoc]

Originally Posted by Tacoma Bob

Remember the 4th step.

the 4th step?

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by socalplanedoc

the 4th step?

"Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves."

Seems like the 8th, 9th and 10th steps also are applicable to this thread.

[jjcom]

For the most part, I like it keep it to something that would have been possible around that time frame. I've got a high compression head, 6 volt alternator, and sealed beam headlights. It's also got nice leather seats and a boat horn. Some of that is out there, but a lot would be have been possible in the 30-50s area so by that I'm ok with it.

Now some day I'd love to find a car thats been partly gutted and have some "fun". Go with a A block, counter balanced crank, high compression head, some kind of weber or the like carb setup with a header and free flow exhaust. Give the car a radio, OD, and some HVAC system and make a "road trip car" out of it. I wouldn't ever want to take a complete car and do that...but one thats already been dismantled, sure.

[dumb person]

Am i bad for drilling a hole in the frame for a bolt for the stoplight switch? (yes, i had no idea where it should be, nor if it was for a car with the steeringwheel on the wrong side) i am bad huh? ohh...
But on the upside i dislike the idea of putting on downdraft carb's does that redeem me?

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by newshirt

It takes a person dedicated to the RG&JS to reverse non-period changes to an antique car.

It takes dedication to restore a car according to the RG&JS, whether it has changes or not.

Originally Posted by newshirt

"Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

It may not be broke, but it can be better.

Originally Posted by newshirt

The cost of original parts will go out of sight. A $100 generator now, will cost $5,000 in fifty years. Who's going to spend that kind of money reversing your "bolt-on" alternator mod?

Nobody knows what inflation will be over the next 50 years. But based on the past 50, a generator purchased for $100 in 1962 now would cost $766.25, not $5,000.

Originally Posted by newshirt

Future owners will not necessarily know which parts are period-correct and which are not.

They'll know the same way current owners do - via the RG&JS, Service Letters, "How To Restore Your Model A", "Technically Speaking", etc, etc, etc.