Pietenpol

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Model a powered

[Bruce of MN]

I assumed they would have a magneto on top and another driven off the timing gear cover, but I don't see either.

[Keith True]

That's because they only ran one mag.(reassuring thought) And,it ran off the nose of the crank.The engine is in there backwards,and the mag is actually under the radiator.The ones I saw years ago were the size of a lunchbox.

[halpeters]

Look where they put the radiator - right in front of the pilot.

The Pietenpol is actually a good airplane, and are a fairly popular home built airplane, with new ones still being built. Most are using small airplane engines, though.

Burtz says that their new Model A engines “are not intended to be used in airplanes”…

[Keith True]

Burtz builds car engines,selling them for plane use opens up a can of worms.The electrical shop I use does everything except aircraft.His insurance specificly prohibits it.A Caterpillar engine builder here will not do marine.He wouldn't mind,he is good,but he draws the line at the $5000.extra per year insurance.The Piet is one of the most forgiving planes there is.Almost self landing.Put it 3 feet off the ground,cut the power to an idle,and it just drifts down,tail first.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by Keith True

Burtz builds car engines,selling them for plane use opens up a can of worms.The electrical shop I use does everything except aircraft.His insurance specificly prohibits it.A Caterpillar engine builder here will not do marine.He wouldn't mind,he is good,but he draws the line at the $5000.extra per year insurance.The Piet is one of the most forgiving planes there is.Almost self landing.Put it 3 feet off the ground,cut the power to an idle,and it just drifts down,tail first.

Interesting comment above. I was always under the impression that ALL airplanes were self landing. Maybe not??

[nkaminar]

I saw a Pietenpol at the Evergreen Aviation & Space Museum in Portland last week. The engine appeared to be fairly stock. One should not attempt to fly it inverted.

The original Spruce Goose is there. It takes up the entire building.

I build and fly model airplanes. I am looking for a 1/4 scale Spruce Goose model to build.

[Keith True]

You're right.They are all self landing.The difference is in how many pieces they land in.My folks had a Cessna 150,I didn't care for that kind of flying.The farm next to us had a J-3,now that was flying.That farmers friend had a Pietenpol,and I had a Model A so I was right in love with that plane.It was an old build,around 1940,and a lot of his family had abused it.It was probably really not airworthy.Best comparison would be looking at an old Fordor with bad wood,doors kind of crooked,roofline kind of drooping in the middle,and had kind of a wiggle when you move it around.The family that owned it is all gone now,but they all had the attitude of,there ain't no blue lights up there.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by Keith True

You're right.They are all self landing.The difference is in how many pieces they land in.My folks had a Cessna 150,I didn't care for that kind of flying.The farm next to us had a J-3,now that was flying.That farmers friend had a Pietenpol,and I had a Model A so I was right in love with that plane.It was an old build,around 1940,and a lot of his family had abused it.It was probably really not airworthy.Best comparison would be looking at an old Fordor with bad wood,doors kind of crooked,roofline kind of drooping in the middle,and had kind of a wiggle when you move it around.The family that owned it is all gone now,but they all had the attitude of,there ain't no blue lights up there.

Private aviation was a lot different back then. You had a bunch of guys returning from WWII and Korea that had been taught to fly by Uncle, and they kept it up when they got back. There were tons of little fields all over the place. Flying from one small field to another was easy and simple. Then developers started buying up land around the airports and pretty soon the residents ganged up on those “noisy, dangerous” things and essentially litigated them out of business. When I went through ground school in the ‘70s I had my choice of several of these small places to take instruction. They are all gone now except one run by a University, houses built on the land.

Residents don’t give up. We now have the last remaining private aviation airport in the San Jose, CA metro area (population around 2 million) under fire because those nasty private planes put lead into the air, and all the little cupcakes are gonna die in droves. Guess what, folks, that airport was there before you were born!

Similar thing happened in Sacramento when Mather AFB was converted from military to civilian use (primarily cargo) in the 1980s. Developers built a bunch of McMansions right under the flight path, and the residents didn’t like those noisy planes disturbing their slice of heaven. Courts finally told them to pound sand.

Common theme - nobody forced you to move where you did.

End today’s rant.

[Keith True]

My folks flew out of a small regulation airport.The neighbor with the J-3 and the guy with the Pietenpol just flew out of their fields.Could get tight,as they didn't want to give up any more space to grow corn as possible.The guy with the Piet flew in the war,and was told he was not fit for a license to fly at home.If he had lived in the south he and his family might have been moonshiners.I really don't know how many in his family actually got licenses,I do know one daughter did.

[David in San Antonio]

According to one of the Pietenpols, the editor of a DIY magazine said a car engine could never power a plane, just too little power for all that weight. Pietenpol wrote him a letter, protesting that he built his own plane powered by a Model A engine. The editor replied skeptically, challenging Pietenpol to fly his imaginary airplane to Minneapolis and show him in person. So Pietenpol did, in fact showed up with two. The editor was so impressed he published the plans over the next four issues, and Pietenpol went into the business of selling plans and kits. The business continues to this day. There is an active community of builders, owners, and flyers with fly-ins, clubs, and online forums.
Which makes me want to ask on their forum: What’s the best oil to use in a Pietenpol Model A engine?
See https://www.pietenpolaircraftcompany...camper-history

[Jim Brierley]

I've seen both A powered and T powered Piet's, both had side-driven mags, off the timing gear. These drives were common on race engines. The T was called 'scout', a single seater, and the A was the 'air camper, a two-place craft.

[Gene F]

Insurance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And their staff attorneys drive me crazy. Just yesterday I sent a letter to my collector car insurance company asking to clarify some things (you can imagine). I also asked how much it costs to boost the agreed value on my streetrod, and I included a printout of all the parts and their costs.

JayJay you are right. The speedway had to close here because all the resident that had encroached over the years suddenly forgot that there was a racetrack there for 49 years. Oh but the real estate agents were careful not to show any houss on race night.

Planes use leaded fuel....that's a good one. Like those amounts accumulate to anything. The formaldahyde in their carpets is more toxic than that. I'm still laughing.

[Synchro909]

JayJay, over here, the fact that the airfield was there before the residents moved in means that THEY CHOSE to live near it. Therefor, you put up with the noise or sell up. Simple but these days of woke, things are changing (for the worse)

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

JayJay, over here, the fact that the airfield was there before the residents moved in means that THEY CHOSE to live near it. Therefor, you put up with the noise or sell up. Simple but these days of woke, things are changing (for the worse)

Logic and "justice" notwithstanding, around here in the good old US of A, whoever has the lawyer with the biggest mouth generally prevails. I was once seated in a jury box and the judge got to questioning the jurors. He was poking to see if everyone shared the "innocent until proven guilty" concept. Somehow when he got to me the conversation devolved to my stating that it was my opinion that whoever's lawyer presented the better argument would prevail, implying that actual guilt or lack thereof was secondary. The defense lawyer dismissed me.

[Seth Swoboda]

Back to the subject....does anyone here on the barn own a Pietenpol with a Model A engine?

[rotorwrench]

I spent my whole career in aviation and I've helped shovel up more than my fair share of aircraft wrecks. I think the Pietenpol is decent enough but I prefer lighter weight aircraft engines. The old antique stuff was dangerous enough when it was new. Using the old overweight engines is novel enough for those that like to take more risks than I like.

My Pop was in the Civil Air Patrol after the war but never purchased his own airplane. There is an organization that is called "The Flying Farmers" or at least there was back in the day. Most of them didn't have a history of military flying. They just loved to fly. One old farmer died and his family wanted me to look at his old Funk airplane. I went and looked it over and found it in rough shape. The old guy had landed bad and bent one of the wing struts. He bailing wired a 2x4 on to the strut so he could fly it but I don't know if he ever did. They eventually sold it. The Funk brothers that made the Funk model B started out with the Model B Ford engine but then changed over to the Lycoming GO-145-C2. After the war they went to the Continental C85-12. They are the same Funk brothers that converted Ford tractors to run the Ford H model 6-cylinder and V8 engines.

[ModelA29]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Interesting comment above. I was always under the impression that ALL airplanes were self landing. Maybe not??

If it has 2 engines and one dies the spare will carry you directly to the crash site......


Building a new Pietenpol you could use a Burtz. The standard A engine w/mag is 244 pounds. I'm certain the Burtz is heavier which will affect weight and balance and reduce the usable payload. As a homebuilder you can use any engine you want. The little aluminum Buick/Olds V8 was popular. http://acversailles.free.fr/document...plications.pdf

Using an uncertified engine just requires few extra hours of test flight.

After the FAA inspects the aircraft, you must complete a flight test program. The program is usually at least 40 hours long, but it can be 25 hours if you use an FAA-approved engine and propeller.

[Keith True]

the Piet I knew of was retired in the early-mid 70's.Even the owner said,they make better engines now.He was pretty excited to hear that one might be available with a Corvair engine.But,he retired from flying completely.I know he did crawl inside of his with a flashlight,and his boy asked him,what do you see,he said firewood.kindling.I know it never flew again after that.It went in the barn,I have no idea where it went.

[Terry Burtz, Calif]

We need to have Jim Brierly comment.

I can't find it, but I recall sending certification to him 20 years ago about using the Model A engine in airplanes.

This certification was rescinded because the 1 5/8 inch diameter rear main bearing of the crankshaft that swung the prop had fatigue failures