Lacquer Paint fix?

[Lenny Bruce]

Hello I have a question about the spider cracked lacquer paint on our Model A.
The cracking isn’t causing any flaking but looks kind of crappy. Is there a process to making it smooth again without ruining the paint all together? Any sanding procedures possibly? Not trying to cut corners by any means just would like to make the car look nice without having to paint it. I realize a paint job is going to be a necessity at some point but would like to put it off as long as possible. Thanks…

[Thodge]

Unfortunately there aren’t really any options for fixing spider cracked paint without removing it and starting over. With lacquer, the cracks will go all the way through the coating or at least down to the primer. I would advise against trying to sand and buff it for a couple reasons. If it is lacquer and it had no orange peel before the cracking, it had already been heavily sanded and buffed and you may not have a ton of film build left. The other reason is that sanding and buffing can fill the cracks with buffing compound residue that will be nearly impossible to get out of there and will look awful on a darker color. I guess it depends on how large the cracks are at this point. If they’re relatively fine you could probably use one of the spray quick detailed products on it to mask them temporarily. Just make sure that it’s not a spray wax because wax will fill in the cracks too.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

There is nothing that can salvage the cracked Lacquer paint. Just compound it by hand and wax it to make it less noticable.

[desotoguy]

If it's black, paste shoe polish will make it a 10 footer. Had a friend do that one time. A paint job is the only real fix.

[Dino's A]

Speaking of the old nitrocellulose lacquer, does anyone know where it can be bought
at? And why was it banned? I'm sure the modern paints like urethanes, epoxy primers
clear coat products are dangerous if mishandled as well.

[Thodge]

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I’ve heard that guitar refinishers might still use lacquer. You probably can only get it at the hobbyist level because of it being banned. It was banned because of VOC regulations as lacquer is sprayed with more solvent than solids so there is a lot of pollution. Modern high solids paint has less VOCs to evaporate, which is part of the reason they hold up so much better. They’re much worse for your health if misused. But other than lacquer’s gloss level being more appropriate for antique cars, there’s no other benefit over urethane and a whole lot of negatives.

[nkaminar]

I am suggesting this because I don't know the answer. Would a quick wipe with lacquer thinner help? If Lenny decides to try that, he should try in on a section that is hidden away somewhere.

[Gary Karr]

To answer Dino's question, I doubt that you will be able to find nitrocellulose lacquer in the US. It is a lead based product and was removed probably 30 years ago. The last I was able to get was from Hibernia Restorations in new Jersey but that was back in the late 90's. There are still some sources of acrylic lacquers available but those sources too are dwindling.

[nkaminar]

Old limousines that were from the 1930's and had lacquer paint had the paint worn away in spots. The chauffeur would spend his off hours polishing the car to the point where the paint was worn through.

[ModelA29]

When we painted the "mega buck" Pantera in the 80s we couldn't get nitrocellulose lacquer here. It was sourced from Ferrari's supplier - sure glad the guy we were building it for had deep pockets.

The cracks are caused by the paint shrinking and pulling apart (or heat/cold cycles). There is nothing to fix it. The lacquer thinner trick might work but the surface would have to be horizontal and flat so the paint didn't run off or puddle. My dad used the same idea to fix the crazing on old pianos with alcohol to soften the varnish.
Here in CA there is a loophole. A shop has to use low VOC paints and a very expensive filter system on their booth. As Joe Citizen I can buy and spray whatever I want in my driveway.

[nkaminar]

What ever paint you use, be sure to follow the recommendations on personal protection equipment. I am planning on spraying my front fenders and have bought a hood system with external positive pressure air supply through a charcoal filter. The paint can enter your body through your eyes. I am also planning on using a painter's suit to cover my body.

[Dino's A]

Originally Posted by Gary Karr

To answer Dino's question, I doubt that you will be able to find nitrocellulose lacquer in the US. It is a lead based product and was removed probably 30 years ago. The last I was able to get was from Hibernia Restorations in new Jersey but that was back in the late 90's. There are still some sources of acrylic lacquers available but those sources too are dwindling.

Thanks Gary. But I bet that lacquers wouldn't be used on a large scale these
days ever since clear coats came to be 30 years ago. It would've been nice to legalize small quantities for limited use.

So lets say I have a door on a black lacquered car I need to refinish. Can it be
done to look like Lacquer or is it impossible to do that?

[Thodge]

When you say look like lacquer, I’m assuming you mean matching the gloss level of the adjacent panels. If that’s the case, even new lacquer wouldn’t exactly match an aged paint job. The main thing is matching the color, which is more difficult on black than most people know. You can tweak the gloss of clear coat with matte additive if you’re really concerned about it. Theoretically, if you were matching an older sanded-flat and buffed lacquer job that now has a muted tone you would need to first do spray outs with varying gloss levels to see what you need. Then the panel is repaired as usual and cleared full gloss. Then you would wet sand it flat and finally spray the coat of adjusted clear. It can’t be buffed afterward or it will turn into full gloss again. It’s not ideal but I’ve done it on small repairs on classics before and it works.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by desotoguy

If it's black, paste shoe polish will make it a 10 footer. Had a friend do that one time. A paint job is the only real fix.

Just in case some folks don't believe you, I'd like to attest to the truth in your advice.
I used to buy that giant can of black shoe polish marketed as vinyl top dressing. Wax a black or marron car with that and the results were amazing.

[Keith True]

A few years ago I asked the paint guy I use if lacquer really was outlawed where I am.He said no,but he never corrects people about that when they bring it up.His call for it is close to zero.They did away with the lacquer line after losing over $35,000 in out of date stock and disposal fees.His calls come from musical instrument restorers,antique clock people,and some horse drawn carriage people.Turns out there are dozens of sources around the world to buy small amounts.He does get a handful of old car guys complaining because he won't maintain a $15,000 paint line so they can match up their repaired fender every few years.

[GPierce]

Nitrate Dope?
https://www.conaircraft.com/randolphproducts

[47topless]

Never used this stuff on a car but it will soften lacquer. When working with it, it seems to "melt" the finish and make it young again. It sure works great on pianos etc.
https://www.amazon.com/Formbys-30010.../dp/B000C018CM

[Bruce_MO]

I just bought some lacquer from TCP Global and had it shipped to me from CA. They custom matched and mixed some metallic green that I needed for the interior pieces and dash on my ‘46 Mercury. I sent them a glove box door to match from, and they turned everything around pretty quickly. I sourced some inexpensive lacquer thinner from O’Reilys and it worked great. Lacquer is the only finish to use on dash and interior pieces for flathead era cars.

[gdmn852]

Cracked lacquer finish was the problem with this car and picture of how it looks today, finish striped and now in primer. Also in reference to post 13 to try and replicate the original look of deluxe gas tank, is a lot of work with 2 step , mask off and use semi gloss then full gloss on center areas of tank .Be much easier with lacquer.

[Thodge]

It’s absolutely a lot of work. It’s the same process that’s used in repairing the new cars and bikes that have the matte paint jobs. The last coat of flattened clear has to be flawless. One dirt nib in it and you’re sanding and reclearing again because it can’t be buffed.