Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Hello all, I have a few other posts chasing the same issues that I’m about to go through again here maybe some will have some new ideas.
I have a 1934 flatty sedan that I had running recently in the past with some backfiring. It still has a rebuilt distributor that’s it has ran on great and a rebuilt carb. It will not start again now. In my trouble shooting I found it has 6.4 volts from the battery and following through to the output of the resistor it had 2.3 volts, big drop but it still had spark but would not sputter or try to start with starter fluid either. So, I put a hot wire from the input side of the resistor to the coil to bypass this giving me 4.5 volt to the coil. Tried starting again got spark but still no starting but it will backfire through the tailpipe like it has been. I’m not quite sure where to go now with it having spark but still not starting only backfiring a bit. Is it possible it might need a new condenser?? Any ideas or suggestions I’ll take. I plan to rebuild this car sometime in the future but now it would be cool to here her run again off of what she has.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

You should have battery voltage at the input side of the resistor.
Maybe dirty contacts in the ignition switch.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Something I can take a look at, 4 volts at the coil with spark should be enough to get it started though right?

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Yeah, change out the condenser

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

If you only have 4.5 volts at the powered side of the resistor, you’re losing 2 volts between the battery and the resistor, probably at the ignition switch. Finding out where you are losing that 2 volts will help.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Try hot wiring direct from the battery to the coil and see if it starts now.


Glenn

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

#4 Brian is right. Change it out.
Could possibly solve the problem.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Tried Hotwire from battery to coil and still same result got some tiny backfires. Also 6.3 volts from the battery should be enough to turn the engine over fast enough right? I think I’ll get a new condenser.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Have you checked compression? Is it possible the timing gear ( if pressed on ) has slipped?

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Compression was a little low cold but pretty consistent. As far as the timing gear I have no clue how to check that.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Flatheads will run with Low compression, burnt valve(s), bad distributor settings, lousy carburetor and/or setting, low voltage, etc. They WILL NOT run with a bad condensor! Get a couple new condensers from Michael at Third Gen. Relatively easy to change out. That’s where I would start.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Okay I think that’s where I will start. Also I have been reading up on how 6volt systems start a little better with 2/0 or 00 gauge cables. Anyone have any experience with this?

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Has the coil been rebuilt? I’m assuming it’s the original style since you’re going through the resistor. If it hasn’t been rebuilt I highly recommend you get that done.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

I run OO gauge on all my 6 volt cars n trucks. The junk from the parts store is about as good as using speaker wire. Those old braided flat cables get green corosion and don't conduct the juice very well either. Tim

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

The coil has been rebuilt I forgot to mention that. What’s the best place to find some 00 gauge I’m seeing some sites online have it anywhere else?

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Welding supply stores 🏬

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

There is no need for 00 wire. Suggest measure the battery voltage at standstill and again while turning the motor over. or charge your battery and then have it checked at local auto parts store. If your battery is good thats a great place to start troubleshooting. Should have the same battery cranking voltage at the battery and at the ON/OFF switch.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

As TerryOH said, Check the battery first, maybe it has a weak cell. I ALWAYS begin any electrical trouble shooting at the battery and cables and follow it out from there. Remember, the ground side of the circuit is just as important as the hot side.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Did some voltage checking today.
From the battery: 6.4 volts
To the ignition switch: 6.4volts
Ignition switch to resistor: 4.9 volts
Resistor to coil 2.2volts
(Big drops here so still have the hot wire temporarily in place)
Battery to starter switch:6.4volts
Starter switch to starter:3.4 volts
Another drop here which would be the cause to my slow starting issue. I’m guessing I would need about 6 volts to the starter to. So what’s the best way to clean the starter switch connections, or can I even clean up these connections? To see if I can fix the issue that way?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5820f393a6.jpg

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Check the voltage at the battery POST as you are cranking the engine. I it drops to 3.4 volts then you probably have a weak battery or high current draw from the starter.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

The battery only drops from 6.4 to 5.3 when starting not a huge drop.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

I have had several 1934 Fords & a sedan like yours. I keep it in good running order. Returned home after a drive and came back 4 days later and cranked it over good but no fire only the odd backfire. Check everything over the next few hours and no go. Finally decided to replace the condenser which was only 12 months old. Fitted a non genuine one on the outside of the distributor and the engine started right up. Remove the original condenser first. When operating the floor starter switch stomp down hard on it so that the contacts make a good circuit. Just soft pushing it will cause a poor contact and slow cranking. They can be pulled apart and clean (file) the contacts. New ones are still around on ebay or 3rd generation auto has them. Regards, Kevin.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Thanks for posting the readings. There is a drop either in your ignition switch or the wire from the switch to the resistor. And a drop in the starter solenoid or the cable to the starter. Feel that cable while cranking to see if it gets warm. If it’s warm, time for new 00 cables. Your starter definitely needs all 6.4 volts and will crank nice and fast with them, and leave enough leftover for the ignition on startup.

I’m sure you can find info here too on taking apart your solenoid and cleaning the contacts.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

That’s what I tried to do before. I have a Tubman condenser but I couldn’t find a successful way to mount and connect it. Do you have any suggestions on that? Or what condenser did you use on the outside of the distributor?

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

The condensor can be mounted remotely from the distributor. Make sure the case is grounded well and connect the wire to the distributor with 16 gauge wire. I run a spare on top of my generator, 59AB engine, and it works fine there.


1 gauge for starter wire to starter was Ford standard 1(0) or 2(00) is a good upgrade 3(000) is overkill.


https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/c...re-d_1429.html

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Here's my generator mount. I slip the female connector alongside of the male and not connected. I can easily plug this spare in if required.


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...7&d=1732563644https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...6&d=1732563644

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

I'm an "8BA guy", so I don't have a lot of experience with the early "front mount" distributors. I do know many have done it. I do have one picture of one of my condensers mounted on a "Rabbit-Ear" distributor. It's not exactly the same, but close. I think all you would have to do is mount the condenser with the "P"-clamp on one of the coil mounting bolts and run a wire to the terminal on the distributor. If you need a longer lead, let me know and I'll have one made up and sent out.

"glennpm" is also correct in saying that it can really be mounted just about anywhere as long as the circuit is correct.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

The condenser which glennpm has used I think is a Mallory 400 which is the same type I use mounted on one of the three coil mounting screws with the orange condenser wire going to a screw on the original coil where the original condenser was connected with a small screw. The Mallory 400 is a good mid range capacity at .28 mfd. One thing to be very careful of with condensers which have a wire (not a terminal) is not to pull or place any tension on that wire because it can cause a disconnection inside the case of the condenser. Shop around a bit for a Mallory 400 because some vendors have them priced high and some much cheaper at about $15.00. Regards, Kevin.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Yes, it is a Mallory 400 and it is working quite well. I also have a Mallory mounted on my crab as well.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000COMRGE...fed_asin_title


To make it easier to change the condensor mounted on the crab, I have a stud screwed in with some Locktite. Much easier to change on the car instead of loosing a screw.


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attac...1&d=1732623250

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

I might give this a shot again to see if I can get it working. I read through a old forum I had about this same thing and here’s my thinking: I can mount the condenser on one of the coil screws(what I did the past time) and have a screw come through the condenser tunnel and secure it with a nut then put the lead on the screw and again secure it with a nut. That should be a correct circuit I’m thinking. worth a shot. If that falls through I’ll keep wrestling the old style condensers.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Yes thats how I have my Mallory 400 mounted and connected to my original 34 Ford distributor. Be careful not to pull on the condenser wire as I have one disconnect inside the case and cause problems. I have fitted quite a few Mallory 400 condensors to vintage cars and even a couple of motor cycles and all have been good. New old stock condensors are a bad risk because most are faulty. I test all the Mallory 400 on my old original tester before fitting them and they are always up to standard. At .28 mfd they are a better match for the original Ford V8 coils which required .36 mfd according to original Ford specs. Other new condensors are rated at about .22 mfd. which match modern canister type ignition coils. My favourite Fords are the 1934 V8. Regards, Kevin.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

You can fit up on of the Tubman condensers and make it look quite nice.
this is on my 33 spare engine.(59A)
Once fitted they are there for the duration.
Lawrie

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

some close up pics of the way its connected and mounted.
Lawrie

Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Okay, while I’m waiting on some things to come in I’ve been looking at my slow starter to trouble shoot the slow turn over in the mean time. So I got the starter switch removed and got the points cleaned up on that and then checked voltages. From the starter switch to starter wire (disconnected) I’m getting 6.2 volts. When I hook the cable to the starter and check I only get 3.8-4 volts with the starter engaged. Could this be a starter ground issue? How does the starter ground to the engine?

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

It grounds on the oil pan where it bolts up. this area must be clean and paint free. Sometime later Ford put an extra bracket off the top bolt to oil pan. These are good, extra support and better ground. Got one on your engine?

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

I seem to remember hearing the support bracket was added sometime in the 1937 model year.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Occasionally I have to remove the starter and clean the area where it bolts to the oil pan. Condensation gets in there and results in a poor ground. I also added a ground strap from the starter to the block.
Doug.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Did you correct the voltage drop you found from the ignition switch to the resistor? Take the switch apart and clean the three contacts.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Is the starter cable from the solenoid to the starter good? I had a similar problem and didn't have good voltage from the battery to the starter, but the cable "appeared" to be in good shape. I checked the cable for continuity and voltage and it showed a lot of resistance. Turns out I cut away all the outer skin of the cable and found it was green inside from heavy corrosion. Replaced the cable and that solved the problem.

Re: Chasing same issues again any ideas? ‘34
 

Ditto what mcgarrett said.