The Ford Barn

billybronco1 · 12-03-2012, 08:44 AM

Hello,

Just getting started here. I have always wanted A model and my wife finally gave me the green light. Not probably a smart idea but after minimal research I almost bought the first one I looked at. But before I go into too much detail about the car my main concern is engine noises .....

The engine was rebuilt in 2005 and has minimal miles on it since. When first started cold it has an upper end rap like a lifter and the noise speeds up with increased rpm and quiets down when it gets hot. Is there a valve adjustment for this perhaps?

Second and more concerning is a deep knock in the bottom of the engine heard at idle. Now I know some engines make different noise but this is the first model A I have really tuned my ear into and I was concerned.

Owner pointed out upper end noise and advised but says he can not hear the lower which my buddy and I can clearly hear. Is it normal to hear a noise like this?

Thanks in advance for your advise - Bill

1930artdeco · 12-03-2012, 11:59 AM

The upper noise may be a valve that just needs to be adjusted, which is relatively easy to do. Grab one of Les Adnrews books and it will show how to do it. It is possible that you have a worn timing gear as well.

The lower noise could be a couple of things 1) it could be a bad bearing which you can find by shorting out each ind. plug. Then you will need to determine if it is a wrist pin or a bearing by pulling the pan plastigauging the bearing. 2) it could be a worn oil pump drive gear-either replace with an OS gear or just monitor it (mine has that knock).

Welcome to the club and enjoy the car.

Mike

Barney · 12-03-2012, 12:13 PM

Hi, welcome to the Barn.
Some time ago I had a deep knock and i think: Shit happens. But only the timing gear was loose. I hope you have also a small problem and you can fix it.
Greetings Barney

Jim Brierley · 12-03-2012, 12:20 PM

If the upper noise goes away when warm it is likely piston clearance, don't worry about it. A loose valve noise would not diminish when warm. Lower noise could be several things. Does it quieten some in a few seconds after starting, when oil gets to the mains for instance? Could be timing gear and could be loose flywheel bolts. Check the gear by removing the small cover, right front of engine.

billybronco1 · 12-03-2012, 04:37 PM

Okay guys thanks for your help, I have not taken ownership of this car yet and wanted to get some feedback on what your thoughts were. This does give me a starting point, I'm sure I will be spending a lot of time here once I get going on this project - thanks

billybronco1 · 12-10-2012, 05:20 PM

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I would like to address the hopefully easy stuff first - how do I check the timing gear and flywheel nuts for tightness? I ran a screw driver from each plug to ground and did not hear the noise any differently

TinCup · 12-10-2012, 06:05 PM

Run the car with the advance at full retard, all the way up. Is it still knocking? Now fully advance it. Now is it knocking? Middle main is usually the first to go but being less than 7 years old and unknown mileage it is suspect. If you want to check and see if it is a rod put the car in gear and with your foot on the brake let out the clutch and use the hand throttle to increase the rpm's. Does this affect the noise?
Just some things to check along with the timing gear. They are two piece metal and fiber and they can come apart and make noise or the plunge washer and spring could be suspect. Good luck and welcome to the barn!

TinCup · 12-10-2012, 06:10 PM

Remove the side timing gear cover. It has two bolts on the side and one on the bottom. This will give you a great look at the gear and you can see if it is a problem. Flywheel nuts require pulling the motor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybronco1

I would like to address the hopefully easy stuff first - how do I check the timing gear and flywheel nuts for tightness? I ran a screw driver from each plug to ground and did not hear the noise any differently

Napa Skip · 12-11-2012, 08:50 AM

A quick-and-dirty way to check for loose timing gear noise is to reverse the timing pin (that is, to unscrew it and insert the unthreaded end as if attempting to find top dead center) and push in on the pin while the engine is idling. In my experience, this helped diagnose a two-piece timing gear (a fiber gear with an aluminum hub) that had come loose and was causing a thumping noise. This might also help diagnose a weak/broken/missing camshaft plunger spring, which would allow the camshaft to work fore and aft, creating a thumping noise.

CAUTION: (especially for those who have not worked around a Model A engine) the fan is very close to where you'll be working, so be careful.

12-03-2012, 08:44 AM	#1
billybronco1 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: MA Posts: 570	Newbie question - 1929 Model A engine knock and more Hello, Just getting started here. I have always wanted A model and my wife finally gave me the green light. Not probably a smart idea but after minimal research I almost bought the first one I looked at. But before I go into too much detail about the car my main concern is engine noises ..... The engine was rebuilt in 2005 and has minimal miles on it since. When first started cold it has an upper end rap like a lifter and the noise speeds up with increased rpm and quiets down when it gets hot. Is there a valve adjustment for this perhaps? Second and more concerning is a deep knock in the bottom of the engine heard at idle. Now I know some engines make different noise but this is the first model A I have really tuned my ear into and I was concerned. Owner pointed out upper end noise and advised but says he can not hear the lower which my buddy and I can clearly hear. Is it normal to hear a noise like this? Thanks in advance for your advise - Bill

12-03-2012, 11:59 AM	#2
1930artdeco Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lynden, Wa Posts: 3,552	Re: Newbie question - 1929 Model A engine knock and more The upper noise may be a valve that just needs to be adjusted, which is relatively easy to do. Grab one of Les Adnrews books and it will show how to do it. It is possible that you have a worn timing gear as well. The lower noise could be a couple of things 1) it could be a bad bearing which you can find by shorting out each ind. plug. Then you will need to determine if it is a wrist pin or a bearing by pulling the pan plastigauging the bearing. 2) it could be a worn oil pump drive gear-either replace with an OS gear or just monitor it (mine has that knock). Welcome to the club and enjoy the car. Mike __________________ 1930 TownSedan (Briggs) 1957 Country Sedan

12-03-2012, 12:13 PM	#3
Barney Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Switzerland Posts: 93	Re: Newbie question - 1929 Model A engine knock and more Hi, welcome to the Barn. Some time ago I had a deep knock and i think: Shit happens. But only the timing gear was loose. I hope you have also a small problem and you can fix it. Greetings Barney

12-03-2012, 12:20 PM	#4
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,089	Re: Newbie question - 1929 Model A engine knock and more If the upper noise goes away when warm it is likely piston clearance, don't worry about it. A loose valve noise would not diminish when warm. Lower noise could be several things. Does it quieten some in a few seconds after starting, when oil gets to the mains for instance? Could be timing gear and could be loose flywheel bolts. Check the gear by removing the small cover, right front of engine.

12-03-2012, 04:37 PM	#5
billybronco1 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: MA Posts: 570	Re: Newbie question - 1929 Model A engine knock and more Okay guys thanks for your help, I have not taken ownership of this car yet and wanted to get some feedback on what your thoughts were. This does give me a starting point, I'm sure I will be spending a lot of time here once I get going on this project - thanks

12-10-2012, 05:20 PM	#6
billybronco1 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: MA Posts: 570	Re: Newbie question - 1929 Model A engine knock and more Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I would like to address the hopefully easy stuff first - how do I check the timing gear and flywheel nuts for tightness? I ran a screw driver from each plug to ground and did not hear the noise any differently

12-10-2012, 06:05 PM	#7
TinCup Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: OKC / Tonkawa, Ok. Posts: 1,977	Re: Newbie question - 1929 Model A engine knock and more Run the car with the advance at full retard, all the way up. Is it still knocking? Now fully advance it. Now is it knocking? Middle main is usually the first to go but being less than 7 years old and unknown mileage it is suspect. If you want to check and see if it is a rod put the car in gear and with your foot on the brake let out the clutch and use the hand throttle to increase the rpm's. Does this affect the noise? Just some things to check along with the timing gear. They are two piece metal and fiber and they can come apart and make noise or the plunge washer and spring could be suspect. Good luck and welcome to the barn! __________________ Oklahoma City Model A Restorers Group.

12-11-2012, 08:50 AM	#9
Napa Skip Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Napa CA Posts: 412	Re: Newbie question - 1929 Model A engine knock and more A quick-and-dirty way to check for loose timing gear noise is to reverse the timing pin (that is, to unscrew it and insert the unthreaded end as if attempting to find top dead center) and push in on the pin while the engine is idling. In my experience, this helped diagnose a two-piece timing gear (a fiber gear with an aluminum hub) that had come loose and was causing a thumping noise. This might also help diagnose a weak/broken/missing camshaft plunger spring, which would allow the camshaft to work fore and aft, creating a thumping noise. CAUTION: (especially for those who have not worked around a Model A engine) the fan is very close to where you'll be working, so be careful. __________________ Skip Keyser Napa Valley A's Olympic Vintage Auto Club (1980-1982) MARC of San Diego (1977-1978) MAFCA (since 1978) MARC (since 1977) ---------- Model A owners belong in their Model A’s; Model A’s belong on the road.