Need help with cooling system

[Pastor Bill]

As you can probably tell, I am new to this forum. I purchased a 1929 Model A Tudor last Monday. This is my first Model A and I am excited about it. It was drivable, but I live 50 miles from where I purchased it so I had it delivered to my home on a wrecker. I noticed when I drove it, before I purchased it, quite a bit of water was leaking from the water pump and out the radiator overflow. They unloaded it in my garage and I immediately began to "tear into it." I am not afraid to "tear" into anything. The previous owner, who recently deceased, put new tires on it and also a new radiator and battery, which continues to discharge while sitting. It is my understanding that it was stored by the owner for about 15 years before his family tried to get it into a salable condition. Apparently the new radiator became blocked with debris from the motor. I washed it out until the water ran clean and also put a hose in the opening at the top of the motor where the water pump was. A lot of scale and rust came out of the motor and I continued to flush with my garden hose until the water ran clear. I also removed all the new hoses he had installed with the new radiator, and they had a build-up of crud in them. The "impeller" (if that's what it is called) on the inside of the water pump shaft was almost round with a build-up of rust. My question is, what should I do before I put it all back together? Replace the water pump? flush the radiator and motor with something designed to remove rust?

Also, I want to add a "kill switch" to the battery. How do I do that? On the positive cable or the negative cable? At the starter or under the dash?

I am just beginning my "renovation" and I am sure I will have many posts before I am able to drive it again.

I have done a search on this forum and, although there are a lot of posts on the water pump, I did not find anything which addressed my specific need.

In addition to a whole bunch (two large boxes) of new and used parts, the car came with many copies of "the Restorer", a number of rusty wrenches etc, and a couple of service manuals which I used to guide me through the disassembly process. I have joined MAFC and have submitted an application for membership in the Tulsa Model A club.

Thank you for your help!

Bill

[ctlikon0712]

You can go to the top of the page and on the black bar under the Search headder click Advanced. Then type your key words and click on the Model A section and hit Search, any title or topic that has info on your question like the cutoff switch for the starter will come up. That's what I do.
Also try this as you are new to the Hobby.
First, this is a great venue to get answers, You will get many and sometimes they differ.
Second, get in contact with the closest Model A club or at least a classic club and hopefully someone will be close by to help you with many of the issues that we as owners will have.
Third, join one or both of the National clubs MAFCA, and MARC. Both have very informative Websites.
And lastly start buying reference books. The first one I bought is by Les Andrews. He has a series of three and the first one has a red or maroon cover and it covers the whole car.
Good Luck!

[Loyd Nix]

And don't forget your checkbook!

[29ModelA]

Buy the Mechanics Handbook by Les Andrews. It is a HUGE help. http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/2167



I had little to no desire to join a club and this book has helped me immensely not having anyone else around me to help me. I am not 'restoring' though as I will have a stock unrestored driver.

[Pilotdave]

Pastor Bill, welcome to the Model A hobby! I'd add my support to acquiring Les Andrews' books, especially Vol I - it deals with a lot of the mechanical issues that you have already encountered or will along with routine maintenance and troubleshooting. Club members are a great source of expertise and friendship, especially if you are interested in taking part in organized local tours or other such events. I'm glad to see that you are joining the Tulsa (OK?) club - I'm sure that local members would be happy to help you - all you need to do is ask.

Some thoughts on your questions.....

Cooling system - you have already done several of the things I did with my car which had similar but much less severe issues. I THINK you're at the point where I'd put everything back together and add a mixture of Simple Green and water. Maybe a quart or two of Simple Green. This will cut grease that may be lurking in your radiator or block. Run it for a while - I ran mine near my shop, just letting it come up to temp and idle. Or you could take it for a local spin. Drain this stuff and refill - might want to use water for now in case you have to R&R (rinse and repeat) the process. You may find that the engine still overheats - it could be that the engine may have to be torn down to clean all the junk out of it. But I suggest trying this first and seeing what happens.

One thought about filling the cooling system. Don't overfill the radiator - just cover the tubes at the top of the radiator. If you do, the cooling system will just spit the excess out, and you'll be tempted to worry about that! These engines all seem to have a desired "fill level" that's unique to each, so you may need to play with this a bit.

As to a cut-off switch - there are indeed several (many?) posts on here about them. You can insert the switch on either the starter or ground sides. The most important thing to do is to use really heavy battery cables which I found difficult to locate at the local NAPA shop. I went to a local truck parts supply house where they made up a cable for me. I'm not sure of the correct terminology, but the fellow at the counter referred to it as a "double 00" cable. 6 volt systems need heavy cables - the worst thing you can do is substitute a 12 volt system cable because they are readily available at the local parts store. Try to keep the cables as short as possible, make sure the clamps and terminals are all shiny - especially the grounding spot.

One thing you want to investigate is your reference to the battery continuing to discharge while the engine is not running. The shut-off switch will certainly deal with that, but it'd be wise to find the cause and fix THAT. Could be a lot of things such as a defective brake light switch, a problem with the ignition switch, a cut-out switch on the starter that is sticking closed when the car is turned off.

Hope some of this helps!

[ctlikon0712]

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Yes, could be the cutout which is the metalic cylinder on the Gerenrator..... if you don't have and alternator.

[TinCup]

Here's the good news. You are right in the middle of two great MAFCA clubs. The Tulsa club as well as the Oklahoma City club. Both groups have a wealth of technical skill and talent.

[Rex_A_Lott]

Most welding supply stores carry the heavy cable, as well as the crimp on lugs. All your NHRA cars as well as most other racing sanctions require a battery disconnect switch, so a local speed shop should have one or you can get them from Speedway, Summit, Jegs, et al.
Tri sodium phospahte ( TSP) is good for a radiator/block flush, it helps get rid of the rust...but will take several drain/refill to get rid of the foaming.
Also strong cleaners such as the already mentioned Simple Green , purple power etc.
Good Luck!

[VWJoe]

Originally Posted by Pilotdave

Pastor Bill, welcome to the Model A hobby! I'd add my support to acquiring Les Andrews' books, especially Vol I - it deals with a lot of the mechanical issues that you have already encountered or will along with routine maintenance and troubleshooting. Club members are a great source of expertise and friendship, especially if you are interested in taking part in organized local tours or other such events. I'm glad to see that you are joining the Tulsa (OK?) club - I'm sure that local members would be happy to help you - all you need to do is ask.

Some thoughts on your questions.....

Cooling system - you have already done several of the things I did with my car which had similar but much less severe issues. I THINK you're at the point where I'd put everything back together and add a mixture of Simple Green and water. Maybe a quart or two of Simple Green. This will cut grease that may be lurking in your radiator or block. Run it for a while - I ran mine near my shop, just letting it come up to temp and idle. Or you could take it for a local spin. Drain this stuff and refill - might want to use water for now in case you have to R&R (rinse and repeat) the process. You may find that the engine still overheats - it could be that the engine may have to be torn down to clean all the junk out of it. But I suggest trying this first and seeing what happens.

One thought about filling the cooling system. Don't overfill the radiator - just cover the tubes at the top of the radiator. If you do, the cooling system will just spit the excess out, and you'll be tempted to worry about that! These engines all seem to have a desired "fill level" that's unique to each, so you may need to play with this a bit.

As to a cut-off switch - there are indeed several (many?) posts on here about them. You can insert the switch on either the starter or ground sides. The most important thing to do is to use really heavy battery cables which I found difficult to locate at the local NAPA shop. I went to a local truck parts supply house where they made up a cable for me. I'm not sure of the correct terminology, but the fellow at the counter referred to it as a "double 00" cable. 6 volt systems need heavy cables - the worst thing you can do is substitute a 12 volt system cable because they are readily available at the local parts store. Try to keep the cables as short as possible, make sure the clamps and terminals are all shiny - especially the grounding spot.

One thing you want to investigate is your reference to the battery continuing to discharge while the engine is not running. The shut-off switch will certainly deal with that, but it'd be wise to find the cause and fix THAT. Could be a lot of things such as a defective brake light switch, a problem with the ignition switch, a cut-out switch on the starter that is sticking closed when the car is turned off.

Hope some of this helps!

Always, cut the power cable (negative in this case) & not the ground

[Bob C]

"Always, cut the power cable (negative in this case) & not the ground"

Don't tell Caterpillar this, they've been doing it wrong for a lot of years.

Bob

[Keith True]

All the equipment I've worked on with factory battery switches have the switch in the ground side.I watched a small John Deere dozer burn up from a cutoff switch in the hot side.The switch itself got hot,failed,melted,dropped down onto the steel gas line,the hot terminal fried through the line,and the fire was on.It was gravity fed by the 5/16 gas line.If the switch is in the cold,or ground side,if it is off nothing can happen as the electrons can't get back to ground.If a switch fails in the ground side,it can short to the machine all it wants to.In the hot side the cable between the terminal and the switch is a very likely place to have a problem.I saw one on an A that was mounted on the firewall have a problem.The cable had chafed through on the edge of the firewall I was looking the car over and happened to spot it,there were some burn marks where the inside of the cable had just started to arc.

[ctlikon0712]

I had no idea that there were so many grounding issues involved in a cooling system, lol. Pastor Bill, this is all good info.

[Pastor Bill]

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. I really appreciate each of you taking the time to help a novice "newby", and I will proceed with your suggestions. I know I am really going to enjoy this hobby, but I also suspect my checkbook will receive more use! I am also getting comfortable with the "search" feature of this forum, and have had many other questions answered. There is a wealth of knowledge and skills available on this forum.

Thanks. Bill