The Ford Barn

51 MERC-CT · 10-11-2010, 07:55 AM

Don't recall ever seeing markings like this before (but at my age?)
They were on a 21 stud flathead.
Anybody shed a little light?

Bruce Lancaster · 10-11-2010, 06:47 PM

Is there a part number or number prefix on the heads anywhere?
The Ford USA throws me here...the British marked lots of their 21 stud '37 heads like that with the firing order boxes (they made the '37 engine into the early 1950's) but they were all EnFo with an E at beginning of part number.

trainguy · 10-11-2010, 06:59 PM

I saw a head like this at Hershey last week.The vender did not know what it was.

ken ct · 10-11-2010, 07:19 PM

Its just a fireing order of the engine. are you sure its a 21 stud.Looks like maybe more than 5 studs on the bottom row which would make it a 24 stud one.?? ken ct.

kiwitony · 10-11-2010, 07:27 PM

English ford pilot,see lots of them here in nz

ken ct · 10-11-2010, 08:56 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Oh not usa model. ken ct/

kiwitony · 10-11-2010, 10:49 PM

Sorry I didn't supersize the pic,so never noticed the USA like bruce said the english used this type untill the 50s,maybe another of henrys misterys.

Chris Marshall · 10-12-2010, 07:07 AM

I have one just like it. Found it in a Kansas junkyard several years ago. Its a 37/38 21 stud. I thought it was unique enough at the time to spend 1 1/2 hours and two busted knuckles to pull it off the crusty engine. The firing order diagram was only on one head (I believe it was the drivers side). I'll look for a part number on it tonight.

51 MERC-CT · 10-12-2010, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Is there a part number or number prefix on the heads anywhere?
The Ford USA throws me here...the British marked lots of their 21 stud '37 heads like that with the firing order boxes (they made the '37 engine into the early 1950's) but they were all EnFo with an E at beginning of part number.

Found a PN as shown (77B6050)

Charlie Stephens · 10-12-2010, 10:33 AM

During the 1960's Ford Parts Obsolete of Los Angeles (later Long Beach) imported a large number of 21 stud flathead engines that had been rebuilt by the British Military for their use. There were also a large number of flathead parts. If I remember correctly the heads came through with these markings. I have one of these engines in my '37 Coupe. Although I doubt it is true today I still hear rumors about warehouses of NOS parts in England. These stories seem to pop up every time someone places a "wanted" ad for parts.

Charlie Stephens

Bruce Lancaster · 10-12-2010, 10:44 AM

British built only the 221 1937 type, but the imperial armies also used vast quantities of Canadian and USA 24 stud engines of both sizes...I think Carpenters NOS engines are built form Indian Army stashes of Canadian parts.
From memory, the Briish heads that Joblot imported in huge quantities were all British marked, I think E77 prefixes.
These heads are obviously USA and carry a pure USA prefix, and they are different form the 77 prefix heads that would have come on a 1937 truck...the normal head lacked that firing order box.
The regular 77 heads are common because they were used to replace all the rotted out 1937 78 passenger car heads...
These must surely be later replacement castings, but I have never seen any such aside from the British ones!

Chris Marshall · 10-12-2010, 06:17 PM

I took a look at mine after I got home this evening. It has the same PN as 51 merc - 77B-6050. It also has a casting code/date on the block side of the head, just below the water outlet of J214. Bruce - can you decipher that for actual casting date??

Brian · 10-12-2010, 11:57 PM

It is my understanding that this particular head was issued by Ford as a replacement for the 37-38 engines. The original heads did not have the firing order on them. I have a Canadian Ford publication [I know- the head in question clearly states Made In USA], called Fast Moving Parts Catalogue. Page 144 clearly shows this very same head configuration, and is described as:77 6050 Head-cylinder-RH & LH-cast iron[type 3], used Pass and trucks-except 60 HP, also bus 37. Brian

Kube · 10-13-2010, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

Don't recall ever seeing markings like this before (but at my age?)
They were on a 21 stud flathead.
Anybody shed a little light?

1937 Ford commercial...

10-11-2010, 06:47 PM	#2
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Head markings Is there a part number or number prefix on the heads anywhere? The Ford USA throws me here...the British marked lots of their 21 stud '37 heads like that with the firing order boxes (they made the '37 engine into the early 1950's) but they were all EnFo with an E at beginning of part number.

10-11-2010, 06:59 PM	#3
trainguy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lehighton Pa Posts: 1,085	Re: Head markings I saw a head like this at Hershey last week.The vender did not know what it was.

10-11-2010, 07:19 PM	#4
ken ct BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: stratford,ct Posts: 5,971	Re: Head markings Its just a fireing order of the engine. are you sure its a 21 stud.Looks like maybe more than 5 studs on the bottom row which would make it a 24 stud one.?? ken ct.

10-11-2010, 07:27 PM	#5
kiwitony Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Whangaparaoa New Zealand Posts: 263	Re: Head markings English ford pilot,see lots of them here in nz

10-11-2010, 08:56 PM	#6
ken ct BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: stratford,ct Posts: 5,971	Re: Head markings Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Oh not usa model. ken ct/

10-11-2010, 10:49 PM	#7
kiwitony Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Whangaparaoa New Zealand Posts: 263	Re: Head markings Sorry I didn't supersize the pic,so never noticed the USA like bruce said the english used this type untill the 50s,maybe another of henrys misterys.

10-12-2010, 07:07 AM	#8
Chris Marshall Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Overbrook, Ks Posts: 158	Re: Head markings I have one just like it. Found it in a Kansas junkyard several years ago. Its a 37/38 21 stud. I thought it was unique enough at the time to spend 1 1/2 hours and two busted knuckles to pull it off the crusty engine. The firing order diagram was only on one head (I believe it was the drivers side). I'll look for a part number on it tonight.

10-12-2010, 10:33 AM	#10
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,034	Re: Head markings During the 1960's Ford Parts Obsolete of Los Angeles (later Long Beach) imported a large number of 21 stud flathead engines that had been rebuilt by the British Military for their use. There were also a large number of flathead parts. If I remember correctly the heads came through with these markings. I have one of these engines in my '37 Coupe. Although I doubt it is true today I still hear rumors about warehouses of NOS parts in England. These stories seem to pop up every time someone places a "wanted" ad for parts. Charlie Stephens

10-12-2010, 10:44 AM	#11
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Head markings British built only the 221 1937 type, but the imperial armies also used vast quantities of Canadian and USA 24 stud engines of both sizes...I think Carpenters NOS engines are built form Indian Army stashes of Canadian parts. From memory, the Briish heads that Joblot imported in huge quantities were all British marked, I think E77 prefixes. These heads are obviously USA and carry a pure USA prefix, and they are different form the 77 prefix heads that would have come on a 1937 truck...the normal head lacked that firing order box. The regular 77 heads are common because they were used to replace all the rotted out 1937 78 passenger car heads... These must surely be later replacement castings, but I have never seen any such aside from the British ones!

10-12-2010, 06:17 PM	#12
Chris Marshall Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Overbrook, Ks Posts: 158	Re: Head markings I took a look at mine after I got home this evening. It has the same PN as 51 merc - 77B-6050. It also has a casting code/date on the block side of the head, just below the water outlet of J214. Bruce - can you decipher that for actual casting date??

10-12-2010, 11:57 PM	#13
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,836	Re: Head markings It is my understanding that this particular head was issued by Ford as a replacement for the 37-38 engines. The original heads did not have the firing order on them. I have a Canadian Ford publication [I know- the head in question clearly states Made In USA], called Fast Moving Parts Catalogue. Page 144 clearly shows this very same head configuration, and is described as:77 6050 Head-cylinder-RH & LH-cast iron[type 3], used Pass and trucks-except 60 HP, also bus 37. Brian