The Ford Barn

Jim Kroeger · 11-18-2013, 11:55 AM

I was driving my '30 Town Sedan yesterday and my wife and I noticed an unusual metalic/burn smell. Thinking nothing of it we continued driving and we began to hear a lot of clicking or rattling noise. It was not a knocking but more like a click, click click-almost like a lawnmower. We were driving 35 mph, saw smoke, and immediately pulled over. The engine was totally engulfed in white smoke but I couldn't tell where it was coming from. The engine was supper hot. Once things cooled down I could see two lines of oil coming from the right side of the engine and traveling down the engine pan near the carburetor. I checked the dip stick and the engine had plenty of oil and the radiator was full. I know it is impossible to figure out the problem without tearing things apart but has anyone had a similiar situation and how do I begin to diagnose the problem? Thanks. JIM

Tom Wesenberg · 11-18-2013, 12:00 PM

Did you notice loss of power before stopping?
Maybe the oil pump quit working and the engine got hot from lack of lubrication?
If the radiator was still full I wouldn't think the engine got too hot from a cooling problem.

Bruce Adams · 11-18-2013, 12:01 PM

How did the radiator and oil pan fluids look?
I would drain and replace the oil immediately in case there is coolant in the oil pan.

A compression test would seem a good place to start .
I wonder about a blown head gasket?

txturbo · 11-18-2013, 12:13 PM

That leaking oil was probably blowing onto the hot exhaust causing the smoke. Doesn't sound like an overheating problem.....just an oil leak.

Jim Kroeger · 11-19-2013, 01:25 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions fellas. It turns out my radiator was almost completely dry. It was missing 2 gallons of water and that is what caused the engine to overheat. I have a pressurized Brassworks radiator and the 4lb. pressure cap was letting water steam out underneath the car without my knowledge. I do not have a expansion tank to catch the water. Your probably correct in that oil was hitting the exhaust manifold or the permatex sealant I used on the manifold was bubbling and burning and causing the smoke. It got so hot I think it fried the condenser as the car has no power going to the distrubutor now. As for that clicking sound I don't hear it anymore when I turn the engine over with the starter. One suggestion was that my valve seat came loose in the head and thats what caused the noise but I don't hear it now-then again I haven't fired her up yet and gone for a run. Now I need to figure out why my radiator is running out of water and the engine is running so hot. The oil level was full with no water so I have to rule out a blown head gasket. The radiator is relatively new and a flow test was perfect. I do tend to run a little rich as my carb tends to run a half a turn open instead of a quarter but this shouldn't have too much effect on temperature should it? Many questions and looking for answers.

juke joint johnny · 11-19-2013, 01:39 PM

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As Bruce above mentions Change your oil . Cooked oil doesn't lubricate the engine, do a compression test to check the head gasket etc.

John Cochran

700rpm · 11-19-2013, 02:30 PM

Here is just what I hope is a helpful hint: I check my water, oil and tires every time before I take my car out. That's what my dad taught me 50 years ago, and many times I have discovered that these items need attention. Many here will probably remember when gas station attendants would do this every time you bought gas. There was -and still is- a good reason for that. We need to keep in mind that we are dealing with 80+ year-old cars.

SDJason · 11-19-2013, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 700rpm

Here is just what I hope is a helpful hint: I check my water, oil and tires every time before I take my car out...

Sound advice - I know doing so saved me from a major headache a few weeks ago when I noticed the oil level was abnormally high (due to all the water that had leaked into the oilpan). I'm also adding checking the torque on the head nuts to my list...

hardtimes · 11-19-2013, 02:54 PM

Hey Jim,
I re-read your original statement...'plenty of oil and the radiator was FULL'.
Your last entry says 'missing TWO gallons of water' .

Trying to diagnose that and wondering...seriously how that could be

Anyway, I'd suspect a HEAD gasket for sure, as your evidence of 'metalic' smell AND white smoke is direct indicators of blown gasket. Low water leads to high heat leads to max metal expansion leads to clatter and weak point (gasket) failure. Good luck and let us know,eh

Jim Kroeger · 12-14-2013, 04:41 PM

Well it turns out that I had a crack in the block in the water jacket and steam was coming out the side of the engine. After pulling the engine it was determined that at least three cracks had been repaired in the block. This engine block is no good and I will be looking for a new block and using some of my existing parts to do a rebuild.

Thanks for your advice fellas

Tom Wesenberg · 12-14-2013, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Kroeger

Well it turns out that I had a crack in the block in the water jacket and steam was coming out the side of the engine. After pulling the engine it was determined that at least three cracks had been repaired in the block. This engine block is no good and I will be looking for a new block and using some of my existing parts to do a rebuild.

Thanks for your advice fellas

Many blocks have been successfully repaired with slow set JB WELD, waterglass, and metal stitching.

darrylkmc · 12-14-2013, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Kroeger

Well it turns out that I had a crack in the block in the water jacket and steam was coming out the side of the engine. After pulling the engine it was determined that at least three cracks had been repaired in the block. This engine block is no good and I will be looking for a new block and using some of my existing parts to do a rebuild.

Thanks for your advice fellas

Jim Kroeger,

In the Block? Or on the exterior of the block, such as water jacket cracks?

Pictures please.

Darryl in Fairbanks

Jim Kroeger · 12-15-2013, 04:26 PM

It is on the exterior of the block in the water jacket near number four cylinder.

darrylkmc · 12-15-2013, 04:39 PM

Jim Kroeger,

Do you have any photos that you could post of this crack, I would think that it would have to quite extensive to render the block useless due to water jacket cracks.

Darryl in Fairbanks

Purdy Swoft · 12-15-2013, 05:40 PM

Outside water jacket cracks are usually easy to repair. I wouldn't junk a block with good babbit because of an outside water jacket crack. You have other problems that caused the overheating . after it overheated so badly, it could have cracks inside that could render the block useless.

11-18-2013, 11:55 AM	#1
Jim Kroeger Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 47	Smoking Engine! I was driving my '30 Town Sedan yesterday and my wife and I noticed an unusual metalic/burn smell. Thinking nothing of it we continued driving and we began to hear a lot of clicking or rattling noise. It was not a knocking but more like a click, click click-almost like a lawnmower. We were driving 35 mph, saw smoke, and immediately pulled over. The engine was totally engulfed in white smoke but I couldn't tell where it was coming from. The engine was supper hot. Once things cooled down I could see two lines of oil coming from the right side of the engine and traveling down the engine pan near the carburetor. I checked the dip stick and the engine had plenty of oil and the radiator was full. I know it is impossible to figure out the problem without tearing things apart but has anyone had a similiar situation and how do I begin to diagnose the problem? Thanks. JIM

11-18-2013, 12:00 PM	#2
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Smoking Engine! Did you notice loss of power before stopping? Maybe the oil pump quit working and the engine got hot from lack of lubrication? If the radiator was still full I wouldn't think the engine got too hot from a cooling problem.

11-18-2013, 12:01 PM	#3
Bruce Adams Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northport, NY Posts: 1,597	Re: Smoking Engine! How did the radiator and oil pan fluids look? I would drain and replace the oil immediately in case there is coolant in the oil pan. A compression test would seem a good place to start . I wonder about a blown head gasket?

11-18-2013, 12:13 PM	#4
txturbo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Houston Posts: 111	Re: Smoking Engine! That leaking oil was probably blowing onto the hot exhaust causing the smoke. Doesn't sound like an overheating problem.....just an oil leak.

11-19-2013, 01:25 PM	#5
Jim Kroeger Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 47	Re: Smoking Engine! Thanks for all the suggestions fellas. It turns out my radiator was almost completely dry. It was missing 2 gallons of water and that is what caused the engine to overheat. I have a pressurized Brassworks radiator and the 4lb. pressure cap was letting water steam out underneath the car without my knowledge. I do not have a expansion tank to catch the water. Your probably correct in that oil was hitting the exhaust manifold or the permatex sealant I used on the manifold was bubbling and burning and causing the smoke. It got so hot I think it fried the condenser as the car has no power going to the distrubutor now. As for that clicking sound I don't hear it anymore when I turn the engine over with the starter. One suggestion was that my valve seat came loose in the head and thats what caused the noise but I don't hear it now-then again I haven't fired her up yet and gone for a run. Now I need to figure out why my radiator is running out of water and the engine is running so hot. The oil level was full with no water so I have to rule out a blown head gasket. The radiator is relatively new and a flow test was perfect. I do tend to run a little rich as my carb tends to run a half a turn open instead of a quarter but this shouldn't have too much effect on temperature should it? Many questions and looking for answers.

11-19-2013, 01:39 PM	#6
juke joint johnny Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: London England Posts: 908	Re: Smoking Engine! Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) As Bruce above mentions Change your oil . Cooked oil doesn't lubricate the engine, do a compression test to check the head gasket etc. John Cochran

11-19-2013, 02:30 PM	#7
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,920	Re: Smoking Engine! Here is just what I hope is a helpful hint: I check my water, oil and tires every time before I take my car out. That's what my dad taught me 50 years ago, and many times I have discovered that these items need attention. Many here will probably remember when gas station attendants would do this every time you bought gas. There was -and still is- a good reason for that. We need to keep in mind that we are dealing with 80+ year-old cars. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

11-19-2013, 02:54 PM	#9
hardtimes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South California Posts: 6,188	Re: Smoking Engine! Hey Jim, I re-read your original statement...'plenty of oil and the radiator was FULL'. Your last entry says 'missing TWO gallons of water' . Trying to diagnose that and wondering...seriously how that could be Anyway, I'd suspect a HEAD gasket for sure, as your evidence of 'metalic' smell AND white smoke is direct indicators of blown gasket. Low water leads to high heat leads to max metal expansion leads to clatter and weak point (gasket) failure. Good luck and let us know,eh

12-14-2013, 04:41 PM	#10
Jim Kroeger Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 47	Re: Smoking Engine! Well it turns out that I had a crack in the block in the water jacket and steam was coming out the side of the engine. After pulling the engine it was determined that at least three cracks had been repaired in the block. This engine block is no good and I will be looking for a new block and using some of my existing parts to do a rebuild. Thanks for your advice fellas

12-15-2013, 04:26 PM	#13
Jim Kroeger Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 47	Re: Smoking Engine! It is on the exterior of the block in the water jacket near number four cylinder.

12-15-2013, 04:39 PM	#14
darrylkmc Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska Posts: 767	Re: Smoking Engine! Jim Kroeger, Do you have any photos that you could post of this crack, I would think that it would have to quite extensive to render the block useless due to water jacket cracks. Darryl in Fairbanks

12-15-2013, 05:40 PM	#15
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Smoking Engine! Outside water jacket cracks are usually easy to repair. I wouldn't junk a block with good babbit because of an outside water jacket crack. You have other problems that caused the overheating . after it overheated so badly, it could have cracks inside that could render the block useless.