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05-18-2019, 11:26 PM | #41 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
The only way to make Horsepower, is to get more air into the engine. That's why blowers work so good. The cylinder head is actually part of the intake port, when incomes to getting air into the cylinder. and the quest goes on!
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05-19-2019, 01:06 AM | #42 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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Here is some more info along these lines. One of my customers to whom I furnished ALL of the valve train parts and only recommended what engine parts to buy and what to do to the engine, called me yesterday and said it was running in his 34 and made 224 hp at the rear wheels. This is a 304 with knife edged light weight small diameter Moldex crank, windage tray with scrapers and vacuum pump. This has 3 250 CFM Strombergs on it with race gas. 404A cam. Titanium lifters and valves. This is the first engine I have been associated with for a long time that is not a dry sump. The vacuum pump thing is why I thought I would mention it. The thread was pretty well hijacked anyway.....LOL |
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05-19-2019, 11:30 AM | #43 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
My question here is?? where did the block get the air to produce this kind of power? I built the 294 short block that produced 235 HP at 4500 rpm. Mild cam and 1.6 chevy intakes and a Magnason blower and only 3.5 lbs boost. We'd like to see the power at 5k but didn't want to blow it up. These big Hp Numbers on normally aspirated fatheads, make me wonder.
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05-19-2019, 04:30 PM | #44 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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For my engines, I have found the flow bench is pretty much a waste of time. I found out back in the 50's that every time I went bigger on the ports I went faster. Now I just take them out to a .100 minimum wall all the way through. The exhausts get some welding mods also. When I get done the exhaust ports are 2 inch diameter at the flange. While the valve is only 1.7 dia, Boyle's laws of gas flow say it is better to have the pipe/port get bigger in dia. as it goes out. |
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05-19-2019, 06:52 PM | #45 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
Pete
That is very impressive. I moved my exhaust ports to straighten them out. The block is on the cover of my book and also in the book. I flow them ant they only improved by 4%. Probably good in a Biville engine. But I don't think it's necessary with other mods to the port exits. I also realize tha the exhaust is important to make HP. But we still have to get the air into the block and the blower does it, where Mother nature can't I must admit that you gave me the idea for my ports. Having worked on aircraft, and a student of John Rontz air flow. THe math is far beyond my understanding. But I think the guys that designed the LS engines read his book. What I'm doing might not work, but it's a good reason to get up in the morning. |
05-19-2019, 07:14 PM | #46 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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Lawrie |
05-20-2019, 03:54 PM | #47 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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05-20-2019, 04:01 PM | #48 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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Many people are reluctant to spend a lot of time on porting a street engine when that is a very cheap way to make hp gain. If you are building your own engine, your time is not worth much if you consider your car a hobby. Usually the nitty gritty details individually will only gain a very small percentage but a lot of these added up will make an increase worth going for. Porting with an ultrasonic gauge takes a HUGE amount of time and patience. The cost? 300 hours of your time, electricity for lights/fans and to run the compressor, a couple of die grinders and a handful of burrs and stones. There is the also the nominal cost of a BIG sign hanging on your shop wall saying, " BIGGER IS BETTER". |
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05-20-2019, 04:09 PM | #49 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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The flame front has a shorter distance to travel across the piston also. The rest of it is in the transfer area. |
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05-20-2019, 05:38 PM | #50 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
Yes Pete, been there done that. Often wondered how well it worked, I had a special system for the street engines. When I was flow testing with the homemade flow bench I found out where the best place to start porting was. By spending about 10/15 min in a port I could improve flow about 10%. Not sure how much it helped, but it looked good.. Now filling the water jacket around the port with liquid steel is a bitch.
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05-20-2019, 07:24 PM | #51 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
Pete and Ron keep it going!! This is entertainment at its best!! Don't understand it all but I,m enjoying the show!!!! Pete
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05-20-2019, 07:47 PM | #52 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
I just watched an older vid from PowerNation TV where they did up a flathead. It was bored and stroked to 304 cu in, with 3/4 race cam, triple carbs, ported with larger Chevy valves, etc. Made a whopping 156 Hp at the crank. Torque was a little more impressive at 265 lb-ft.
https://www.powernationtv.com/episod...tty-3-deuce-v8 |
05-20-2019, 08:02 PM | #53 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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05-20-2019, 08:41 PM | #54 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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05-20-2019, 09:02 PM | #55 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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05-20-2019, 09:35 PM | #56 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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05-20-2019, 10:05 PM | #57 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
On the circle track engines the water pump is one section of the dry sump pump.
On the LSR engine I am on now it will be electric. |
05-20-2019, 10:50 PM | #58 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
That was a popular water system on th 60 hp midget blocks. eliminated the fan belt, Never saw that on the big blocks tho. That another good idea Pete. Learn sumpin every day!!
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05-20-2019, 11:16 PM | #59 | |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
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Here are pics of one on an 8ba. The red belt goes down to the power steering/dry sump pump. |
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05-21-2019, 08:25 AM | #60 |
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Re: Cyl Heads-Navarro vs Edelbrock or Offenhauser
Combustion chamber shape?? Might as well get this one started. Back in the 80's when I was doing all this experimenting, I made up a wooden cylinder head and carved in a bunch of chambers after measuring most stock and aftermarket chambers. I was looking for the best flow compared to CR. I do have some pics of this somewhere. The best one was a piston with a 7 degree top and the head with an 8 deg angle. This pop up piston forced the AF into the valve area. It also allow for a very hi CR with excellent flow. I made up a piston shape with Bondo and sent it to EGGE and asked them if they could make a piston for me with enough material on it for me to machine the top. The cost was 600 dollars, which was far beyond my means.
Fast forward to 2003 and I was at Bivlle with JWL and the flathead powered Hudson. I was shocked the pistons in it. Just like the ones I had sent to EGGE and the Heads were made by Navarro. Interesting, but I'm still not sure this is the right shape. But, I still think the spark plug should be in the center of the transfer area . This creats a shorted flame front and allows for a power tip plug. Be interested in any comments, food for thought. |
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