The Ford Barn

Brian · 08-24-2016, 03:52 AM

Bring it over the hill to me in Masterton. I'll sort it, Brian

scooder · 08-24-2016, 07:42 AM

David,
That "vacuum" port by the oil fill tube is NOT a vacuum port. That is the engine end of the crankcase ventilator that was fitted to some military stuff. Your manifold is a Canadian war time job.
The vacuum ports should be on the back of the manifold riser just below the carb, I believe. I can check later when I get home as I have this manifold.
Vacuum leaks can occur at the valve chamber side of the inlet ports, had this happen, no amount of spray stuff will find these ones. Only manifold removal.
Martin.

scooder · 08-24-2016, 07:45 AM

See in your pictures, the two vacuum ports on the riser. Small ones is for dizzy and wipers, Big one for crankcase ventilator (factory PCV)
Martin.

scooder · 08-24-2016, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

I don't think you will pick up any Vac there ,Does your manifold have a heat riser hole between the carb studs that needs to be covered ,Ted

No heat riser hole Ted, it's a divorced carb type manifold for a 94 carb.
Martin.

david.skinner · 08-24-2016, 07:20 PM

Right - new inlet manifold gasket on the way - will change tomorrow. Is it best practice to use a gasket sealer with these? I certainly do on my motorcycle restoration.

Regards
David

Charlie ny · 08-24-2016, 07:51 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

ds,
In my experience the best...most trouble free....nozzle bars are those
that sort of resemble an upside down 'V' with an integral vent tube pointing
straight down towards the venturris. From the photo of your idle tubes it APPEARS as
though you have the tall nozzle bars which kind of look like the letter 'N' with one
vertical leg missing. Let us know which nozzle bars you actually have. The 'N' type
are very fussy about which idle tube can be used and further more there are about
6 different 'N' bars and just as many variations of idle tubes to service the 'N' bars.
Let us know what bars you have and we'll go from there.
Charlie ny

Charlie ny · 08-24-2016, 07:53 PM

ds,
Your vac seems good enough to me.
Charlie ny

FlatheadTed · 08-24-2016, 09:45 PM

Blast the carb out with compressed air ,blocked idal jets Ted

Brian · 08-24-2016, 10:33 PM

Put gasket on with grease

david.skinner · 08-24-2016, 11:50 PM

Just normal grease Brian?

Ted - did that yesterday as part of the rebuild

Charlie, they are the N ones and I did notice that the idle tubes don't sit concentrically in them. The both touch the sides of the outer tubes. I have heaps of close up photos of the disassembled carbs if that is of any use for identification. I'd be keen to know what to fit and where from. Much appreciated.

Regards
David

Brian · 08-25-2016, 01:58 AM

Just normal grease Brian?

Yes David. You know how when you coat the sides of a gasket with [any] coating, and then when you torque the gasket down, all that 'goop' squeezes out around the outside of the joint? - yeah, well it also squeezes through to the inside of the joint too. If you use grease on the intake manifold gasket, any excess grease that squeezes into the engine is readily assimilated and does no damage. Other products, especially silicon rubber, I shudder to think about.
Grease will seal those minor imperfections, allow surfaces to 'slide' over each other as the torque is applied, and permit the gasket to easily be subsequently removed and indeed, even re-used!

Brian · 08-25-2016, 02:08 AM

David, I have previously had Charlie supply me with one of his carbs, and it was a thing of beauty! You'll not do better than to get him to do you a carb, but lets have a go together on your 36 first. Be so much easier to diagnose in my shed than over the 'net.

david.skinner · 08-25-2016, 02:49 AM

Yes - that sounds a really good idea on both counts Brian. I would like to change the manifold gasket before I head over. I would probably need the car to be running a bit better before I come over.

With the inlet manifold off is there anything to identify/check/measure?

Does anyone know the inlet manifold head bolt size and pitch? I'm pretty sure I've got a partially stripped thread and I am planning to put in a thread insert and need the sizing, unless there is a reason not to?

Regards

Terry,OH · 08-25-2016, 06:31 AM

What 94 Carb do you have??? 91-99, 59 ?? How is the center body marked.

Charlie ny · 08-25-2016, 07:07 AM

Dave,
Brian's offer is outstanding and I'm sure together you will both sort it.
If by any chance any of your mates has a donor 94 with a pair of the inverted 'V' nozzle bar assemblies with holding straps grab them pronto. The 'N' nozzle bar must
be fitted with just the right style idle tube....some are vented some are not. To further frustrate things the 'N' bars come in no vent single vent and multiple vent
designs. Everything must match including the 94 these bars are installed in, if they
do not match the issues you are facing will occur.
The 'V' nozzle bars seem to be happy in most every application.
If you and Brian choose to go this way ,during sorting, be sure to carefully
install the 'V' bars with 2 gaskets under each leg and careful see that the bars sit nice and proper on their seats. With both bars and straps in place snug up the rear strap and
attempt to rock the bars, they should be secure and solid feeling at this point. If
good here back the rear strap securing screws off 1/2 turn and repeat this proceedure on the front strap. At this point the squirter should also be firm and
not wiggle.
I remember to always disassemble the bars and run a tag wire thru the idle
tubes and be sure all openings in the bars are clear.
The above is only my opinion and I certainly respect all other opinions.
Charlie ny

big job · 08-25-2016, 07:32 AM

Just curious again, did you do the quick test; pull throttle out a little 'key off'
now turn engine over with your hand over carb. If its not sucking your hand, thats
reason why you only have 14 inches at idle. Example we have a late Mercury in a
F6 that runs like a kitten, problem is you have to tow it. When I put my hand over
the carb. there is nothing then when running vac gauge is way down there. Haven't got to it yet, but my bet is the gasket failed 'inside the valley chamber' so in case any
new or old carburetor needs suction to pull fuel through venturies idle passages and
such. I been whatching this post and for kicks stuck a vac. gauge on my car 59A and
I got steady 20 inches at idle......doctors stethoscope........ threw my timming light out 50 yrs ago . the vac gauge rules.

Brian · 08-25-2016, 12:22 PM

manifold bolts 3/8 UNC

david.skinner · 08-25-2016, 01:28 PM

Thank you everyone - just got to get it going well enough that I can get over the hill for the 2 hr trip to Brians. Terry here are all the photo's of the carb. Of course it is possible that the components are not even from a single style of carb. The only markings on it I can see is the single '94'.

david.skinner · 08-25-2016, 01:31 PM

and some more...

Mart · 08-25-2016, 02:14 PM

Is it my bad eyes or imagination, but are there washers under the main jets? It could be the casting, but looks a different colour in the pics.

Mart.

08-24-2016, 03:52 AM	#21
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,859	Re: Need help to set idle Bring it over the hill to me in Masterton. I'll sort it, Brian __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

08-24-2016, 07:42 AM	#22
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Need help to set idle David, That "vacuum" port by the oil fill tube is NOT a vacuum port. That is the engine end of the crankcase ventilator that was fitted to some military stuff. Your manifold is a Canadian war time job. The vacuum ports should be on the back of the manifold riser just below the carb, I believe. I can check later when I get home as I have this manifold. Vacuum leaks can occur at the valve chamber side of the inlet ports, had this happen, no amount of spray stuff will find these ones. Only manifold removal. Martin.

08-24-2016, 07:45 AM	#23
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Need help to set idle See in your pictures, the two vacuum ports on the riser. Small ones is for dizzy and wipers, Big one for crankcase ventilator (factory PCV) Martin.

08-24-2016, 07:20 PM	#25
david.skinner Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Wellington NZ Posts: 85	Re: Need help to set idle Right - new inlet manifold gasket on the way - will change tomorrow. Is it best practice to use a gasket sealer with these? I certainly do on my motorcycle restoration. Regards David

08-24-2016, 07:51 PM	#26
Charlie ny BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,019	Re: Need help to set idle Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) ds, In my experience the best...most trouble free....nozzle bars are those that sort of resemble an upside down 'V' with an integral vent tube pointing straight down towards the venturris. From the photo of your idle tubes it APPEARS as though you have the tall nozzle bars which kind of look like the letter 'N' with one vertical leg missing. Let us know which nozzle bars you actually have. The 'N' type are very fussy about which idle tube can be used and further more there are about 6 different 'N' bars and just as many variations of idle tubes to service the 'N' bars. Let us know what bars you have and we'll go from there. Charlie ny

08-24-2016, 07:53 PM	#27
Charlie ny BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,019	Re: Need help to set idle ds, Your vac seems good enough to me. Charlie ny

08-24-2016, 09:45 PM	#28
FlatheadTed Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auckland Posts: 4,709	Re: Need help to set idle Blast the carb out with compressed air ,blocked idal jets Ted __________________ http://www.flatheadted.com Flathead Ted brake Floaters ,

08-24-2016, 10:33 PM	#29
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,859	Re: Need help to set idle Put gasket on with grease __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

08-24-2016, 11:50 PM	#30
david.skinner Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Wellington NZ Posts: 85	Re: Need help to set idle Just normal grease Brian? Ted - did that yesterday as part of the rebuild Charlie, they are the N ones and I did notice that the idle tubes don't sit concentrically in them. The both touch the sides of the outer tubes. I have heaps of close up photos of the disassembled carbs if that is of any use for identification. I'd be keen to know what to fit and where from. Much appreciated. Regards David

08-25-2016, 01:58 AM	#31
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,859	Re: Need help to set idle Just normal grease Brian? Yes David. You know how when you coat the sides of a gasket with [any] coating, and then when you torque the gasket down, all that 'goop' squeezes out around the outside of the joint? - yeah, well it also squeezes through to the inside of the joint too. If you use grease on the intake manifold gasket, any excess grease that squeezes into the engine is readily assimilated and does no damage. Other products, especially silicon rubber, I shudder to think about. Grease will seal those minor imperfections, allow surfaces to 'slide' over each other as the torque is applied, and permit the gasket to easily be subsequently removed and indeed, even re-used! __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

08-25-2016, 02:08 AM	#32
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,859	Re: Need help to set idle David, I have previously had Charlie supply me with one of his carbs, and it was a thing of beauty! You'll not do better than to get him to do you a carb, but lets have a go together on your 36 first. Be so much easier to diagnose in my shed than over the 'net. __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

08-25-2016, 02:49 AM	#33
david.skinner Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Wellington NZ Posts: 85	Re: Need help to set idle Yes - that sounds a really good idea on both counts Brian. I would like to change the manifold gasket before I head over. I would probably need the car to be running a bit better before I come over. With the inlet manifold off is there anything to identify/check/measure? Does anyone know the inlet manifold head bolt size and pitch? I'm pretty sure I've got a partially stripped thread and I am planning to put in a thread insert and need the sizing, unless there is a reason not to? Regards

08-25-2016, 06:31 AM	#34
Terry,OH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,801	Re: Need help to set idle What 94 Carb do you have??? 91-99, 59 ?? How is the center body marked.

08-25-2016, 07:07 AM	#35
Charlie ny BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,019	Re: Need help to set idle Dave, Brian's offer is outstanding and I'm sure together you will both sort it. If by any chance any of your mates has a donor 94 with a pair of the inverted 'V' nozzle bar assemblies with holding straps grab them pronto. The 'N' nozzle bar must be fitted with just the right style idle tube....some are vented some are not. To further frustrate things the 'N' bars come in no vent single vent and multiple vent designs. Everything must match including the 94 these bars are installed in, if they do not match the issues you are facing will occur. The 'V' nozzle bars seem to be happy in most every application. If you and Brian choose to go this way ,during sorting, be sure to carefully install the 'V' bars with 2 gaskets under each leg and careful see that the bars sit nice and proper on their seats. With both bars and straps in place snug up the rear strap and attempt to rock the bars, they should be secure and solid feeling at this point. If good here back the rear strap securing screws off 1/2 turn and repeat this proceedure on the front strap. At this point the squirter should also be firm and not wiggle. I remember to always disassemble the bars and run a tag wire thru the idle tubes and be sure all openings in the bars are clear. The above is only my opinion and I certainly respect all other opinions. Charlie ny Last edited by Charlie ny; 08-25-2016 at 07:08 AM. Reason: forgot the ny

08-25-2016, 07:32 AM	#36
big job Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Dighton, Mass Posts: 1,231	Re: Need help to set idle Just curious again, did you do the quick test; pull throttle out a little 'key off' now turn engine over with your hand over carb. If its not sucking your hand, thats reason why you only have 14 inches at idle. Example we have a late Mercury in a F6 that runs like a kitten, problem is you have to tow it. When I put my hand over the carb. there is nothing then when running vac gauge is way down there. Haven't got to it yet, but my bet is the gasket failed 'inside the valley chamber' so in case any new or old carburetor needs suction to pull fuel through venturies idle passages and such. I been whatching this post and for kicks stuck a vac. gauge on my car 59A and I got steady 20 inches at idle......doctors stethoscope........ threw my timming light out 50 yrs ago . the vac gauge rules.

08-25-2016, 12:22 PM	#37
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,859	Re: Need help to set idle manifold bolts 3/8 UNC __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

08-25-2016, 02:14 PM	#40
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,798	Re: Need help to set idle Is it my bad eyes or imagination, but are there washers under the main jets? It could be the casting, but looks a different colour in the pics. Mart.