The Ford Barn

Bob C · 06-18-2015, 01:42 PM

The solenoid you need is an ST53, it has an isolated ground.

Bob

V8COOPMAN · 06-18-2015, 01:44 PM

JSeery is correct........some of this makes no logical sense. We really need ALL the details about this solenoid, for instance. How many SMALL poles? What is it (are they) wired to? What is start button wired to, and how many wires (poles) does IT have? Surely you have the stock '33 wiring diagram as below for a guide? Also, there is obviously no solenoid on the stock '33. DD

deuce_roadster · 06-18-2015, 02:57 PM

Another thought, most turn signal controllers have a 4 way flasher position that might be hot all the time. Not sure how that works but if it was engaged it might be completing some circuit that even if the flasher or lights were not installed might be a drain. Whatever it turns out to be, its not something obvious.

FlatheadTed · 06-18-2015, 03:10 PM

If the body shop jumped the car with a 12volt it can make the cut out stick closed so you have a current draw ,don't ask me how I know .Ted

V8COOPMAN · 06-18-2015, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

If the body shop jumped the car with a 12volt it can make the cut out stick closed so you have a current draw ,don't ask me how I know .Ted

Boy oh boy, you could be on to something now! That solenoid stuff still needs addressing, though. DD

CTH automotive · 06-18-2015, 03:47 PM

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OK..Solenoid has 2 small poles. It was hooked up with bat. power on 1 side along with horn power, starter switch on small pole next to it, other large pole had starter wire, and incorrectly the main power lead. However, whom ever wired this start system up I just copied this part. They had a jumper lead from the starter side to the small pole next to it. That is the only way this car would turn start. tried eliminateing the jumper, no start or crank. I realize the main power was on the wrong side, but the fact that when I removd it the draw went away made me think bad solenoid. I waited till 2 for a new one and they sent me a 12V! More blood in my eyes!
As asked earlier the starter switch is neg. activated. I don't know if the body shop hit it with 12 V, but if my cut out was bad wouldn't my short go away with it disconnected? Also the car was already dead there before they even knew about it.
Heading to the tractor repair place to try and track down a solenoid. I'll check back in abit.

Bob C · 06-18-2015, 03:58 PM

Let us know what the number of the solenoid you are using is, I know
there are 5 or 6 different ways they can be wired internally.

Bob

CTH automotive · 06-18-2015, 03:58 PM

Jseery- All original wiring except the starter, and the electronic directionals. Those added by Narragansett. Neg. battery was on one side of solenoid, starter on the other. 2 small poles. the one closest to the battery side was my start button, the other had a jumper to the starter side, I wasn't sure why, I just put it back the way it was. Everything worked fine for weeks before it went to the body shop. The main power was wrongly on the starter side. It does come from the fuse panel where it is on the same post as the gen. wire. If I disconnect that main power wire I lose my draw. That's why I was hoping bad solenoid. Looks like NAPA will have one in the am, so I'm not running out to find one. Might just start drinking...

CTH automotive · 06-18-2015, 04:01 PM

The solenoid I have is a Cole Hersee 6V 609?? hard to read the # made in good ole Boston Mass. Figure that has to be old!

JSeery · 06-18-2015, 04:22 PM

This is how the original Ford solenoids were wired internally. Power is provided to the relay coil inside the unit. The one post on the front is the ground connection.

I have never seen a car wired with the power line to the fuse panel on the starter side! If it was connected this way there would be power to the starter anytime there is power to the fuse panel.

bobH · 06-18-2015, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koates

Hi there, I am looking at the photo of your engine and there seems to be something incorrect in the way the cut out on top of the generator has been wired. The battery cable is on the rear of the cut out but should be on the front terminal, ie radiator side. The wire coming out of the generator should be on the rear terminal of the cut out. This means battery current is going directly into the generator armature and if left on too long will burn out the gen armature and flatten the battery. Actually the cut out has been bypassed. Check it out. Good luck, Regards, Kevin.

This brings up something I've noticed on my own 34... The cutout mounts only one way - can't put it on backwards. The terminal to the rear, close to hole for armature & field wires, is clearly stamped "B". The arm wire is short, won't reach around to front cutout term. So, the only way to hook it up, is with the arm wire on the rear term of the cutout (labelled B), and the battery wire on the front terminal (unlabelled).
so, in the case of this original post, are you saying he has the battery wire AND the arm wire, both on the cutout rear term? Not good.

CTH automotive · 06-18-2015, 05:37 PM

Yup Yup, My bad. I did have it back wards....Never both on the same tho. It's fixed now, but I still come back to that when I disconnect it completely the draw doesn't go away...I'd be happy to put a new relay on it (Anybody know where to get these????) just in case.
I just checked something on a hunch....Should there be continuity to ground on the connection at the fuse panel for the main power (Big yellow wire) ??

JSeery · 06-18-2015, 06:59 PM

No, if I understand what your discribing. That would be the definition of a short.

CTH automotive · 06-19-2015, 06:13 AM

I was leaving the shop very frustrated, and I just threw the ohm's meter across the mounting bolts to ground and they did have cont. Then I put it on the wire connection to ground, however I did still have the main and Gen wires attached...I'm going to disconnect them this am and see if it's still grounding...I'm really hoping I had an AH HA moment!

CTH automotive · 06-19-2015, 10:36 PM

Yeah. I know wishful thinking...Cooked the relay, changed to the st 53 solenoid. My buddy at Trautwein products...(need a windshield frame? That's where they come from) happened to have the relay. saved my butt. Even installed the newly restored radio that classic auto electric in Kansas did for me and it works awesome! Pretty sure i'm there!!!
THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR ALL YOUR INPUT!!!!!! It is really hard in a one man shop with no one to help solve a problem. Places like this make it possible. People like you who have written make it so..Thank you!!!!!!!!!
JR.

06-18-2015, 01:44 PM	#22
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,128	Re: 1933 Fordor 6Volt draw JSeery is correct........some of this makes no logical sense. We really need ALL the details about this solenoid, for instance. How many SMALL poles? What is it (are they) wired to? What is start button wired to, and how many wires (poles) does IT have? Surely you have the stock '33 wiring diagram as below for a guide? Also, there is obviously no solenoid on the stock '33. DD __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

06-18-2015, 02:57 PM	#23
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,811	Re: 1933 Fordor 6Volt draw Another thought, most turn signal controllers have a 4 way flasher position that might be hot all the time. Not sure how that works but if it was engaged it might be completing some circuit that even if the flasher or lights were not installed might be a drain. Whatever it turns out to be, its not something obvious.

06-18-2015, 03:10 PM	#24
FlatheadTed Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auckland Posts: 4,709	Re: 1933 Fordor 6Volt draw If the body shop jumped the car with a 12volt it can make the cut out stick closed so you have a current draw ,don't ask me how I know .Ted __________________ http://www.flatheadted.com Flathead Ted brake Floaters ,

06-18-2015, 03:47 PM	#26
CTH automotive Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Greenwich NY. Posts: 42	Re: 1933 Fordor 6Volt draw Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) OK..Solenoid has 2 small poles. It was hooked up with bat. power on 1 side along with horn power, starter switch on small pole next to it, other large pole had starter wire, and incorrectly the main power lead. However, whom ever wired this start system up I just copied this part. They had a jumper lead from the starter side to the small pole next to it. That is the only way this car would turn start. tried eliminateing the jumper, no start or crank. I realize the main power was on the wrong side, but the fact that when I removd it the draw went away made me think bad solenoid. I waited till 2 for a new one and they sent me a 12V! More blood in my eyes! As asked earlier the starter switch is neg. activated. I don't know if the body shop hit it with 12 V, but if my cut out was bad wouldn't my short go away with it disconnected? Also the car was already dead there before they even knew about it. Heading to the tractor repair place to try and track down a solenoid. I'll check back in abit.

06-18-2015, 03:58 PM	#27
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,795	Re: 1933 Fordor 6Volt draw Let us know what the number of the solenoid you are using is, I know there are 5 or 6 different ways they can be wired internally. Bob

06-18-2015, 03:58 PM	#28
CTH automotive Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Greenwich NY. Posts: 42	Re: 1933 Fordor 6Volt draw Jseery- All original wiring except the starter, and the electronic directionals. Those added by Narragansett. Neg. battery was on one side of solenoid, starter on the other. 2 small poles. the one closest to the battery side was my start button, the other had a jumper to the starter side, I wasn't sure why, I just put it back the way it was. Everything worked fine for weeks before it went to the body shop. The main power was wrongly on the starter side. It does come from the fuse panel where it is on the same post as the gen. wire. If I disconnect that main power wire I lose my draw. That's why I was hoping bad solenoid. Looks like NAPA will have one in the am, so I'm not running out to find one. Might just start drinking...

06-18-2015, 04:01 PM	#29
CTH automotive Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Greenwich NY. Posts: 42	Re: 1933 Fordor 6Volt draw The solenoid I have is a Cole Hersee 6V 609?? hard to read the # made in good ole Boston Mass. Figure that has to be old!

06-18-2015, 05:37 PM	#32
CTH automotive Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Greenwich NY. Posts: 42	Re: 1933 Fordor 6Volt draw Yup Yup, My bad. I did have it back wards....Never both on the same tho. It's fixed now, but I still come back to that when I disconnect it completely the draw doesn't go away...I'd be happy to put a new relay on it (Anybody know where to get these????) just in case. I just checked something on a hunch....Should there be continuity to ground on the connection at the fuse panel for the main power (Big yellow wire) ??

06-18-2015, 06:59 PM	#33
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 1933 Fordor 6Volt draw No, if I understand what your discribing. That would be the definition of a short.

06-19-2015, 06:13 AM	#34
CTH automotive Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Greenwich NY. Posts: 42	Re: 1933 Fordor 6Volt draw I was leaving the shop very frustrated, and I just threw the ohm's meter across the mounting bolts to ground and they did have cont. Then I put it on the wire connection to ground, however I did still have the main and Gen wires attached...I'm going to disconnect them this am and see if it's still grounding...I'm really hoping I had an AH HA moment!

06-19-2015, 10:36 PM	#35
CTH automotive Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Greenwich NY. Posts: 42	Re: 1933 Fordor 6Volt draw Yeah. I know wishful thinking...Cooked the relay, changed to the st 53 solenoid. My buddy at Trautwein products...(need a windshield frame? That's where they come from) happened to have the relay. saved my butt. Even installed the newly restored radio that classic auto electric in Kansas did for me and it works awesome! Pretty sure i'm there!!! THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR ALL YOUR INPUT!!!!!! It is really hard in a one man shop with no one to help solve a problem. Places like this make it possible. People like you who have written make it so..Thank you!!!!!!!!! JR.