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Old 07-05-2017, 07:32 AM   #1
corvette8n
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Default Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

I would like to service my king pins this fall, is this something a shade tree mechanic should attempt or should I do as "Ol Ron says and let someone else do it"
What special tools would I need, best place to get parts? Etc.
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Old 07-05-2017, 07:45 AM   #2
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

I took my old spindles off and took them and the bushing kit to the machine shop. They pushed out the old bushes and pushed in the new ones , reamed them to fit the new kingpins, and I put them back in.
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Old 07-05-2017, 08:08 AM   #3
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

Do as John (above) did.
Well worth the money spent.
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Old 07-05-2017, 08:44 AM   #4
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

I have reamers and used to work in a machine shop, so I'm used to working with them. There is a 'knack' to using them - certainly not rocket science, but there's somewhat of a learning curve. Before spending a lot of money on a reamer and possible making things worse, for a one-time repair, I'd take them to a pro. If you were local, I'd offer to do them for you free of charge.
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:20 AM   #5
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

I think you will find the cost of the reamer ect. will out way the cost of having them done. There are many past threads on what is involved if you want to attempt it yourself.
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:25 AM   #6
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

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I've done them both ways and find that using a machine shop will give you the best job. Most of us don't drive our cars as everyday drivers. A new set of king pins and bushings fitted by a machine shop will most likely be a one time cost during our lifetime. Do it once and do it right.
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:47 AM   #7
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

I am a mechanic, and it was a good excuse to buy another tool!
But if your only going to do it once, then the shop is the way to go.
Make sure to carry the kingpins in with the spindles so they can "test fit" them.
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Old 07-05-2017, 10:28 AM   #8
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

Thanks for the offer tagman, I wish I did live closer. Talked to my local NAPA machine shop and he said I need to bring in the whole front axle, but I'm hearing I only need the spindles, which is correct.
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Old 07-05-2017, 10:48 AM   #9
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

All you need is the spindles for the king pins & bushings. The king pin clamps in the axle and doesn't move - only the spindles move. Check the king pin holes in the axle for any damage, but they're normally OK and don't need attention.
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Old 07-05-2017, 10:49 AM   #10
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

I've never heard of a machine shop requiring the front axle to fit the kingpins to the spindles. I'd find another shop. I just had 3 pairs of 37/40 spindles I picked at the LARS swap meet glass beaded, re bushed and king pins fit for 40.00 a pair. I don't know if that's high or low?
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Old 07-05-2017, 07:18 PM   #11
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

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I've never heard of a machine shop requiring the front axle to fit the kingpins to the spindles. I'd find another shop. I just had 3 pairs of 37/40 spindles I picked at the LARS swap meet glass beaded, re bushed and king pins fit for 40.00 a pair. I don't know if that's high or low?
krylon is correct, find another shop. The front axle is not needed to fit the pins to the spindles.
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Old 07-05-2017, 07:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

The first "pro" I had redo my king pins (and maybe even the second) didn't check the alignment of the grease fitting with the hole in the bushing so no grease would go into the bushing. Make sure your "pro" does better than that. They should fit the bushing then look through the hole to make sure it's perfectly lined up. Finally, my "real pro" had to drill the bushing hole out a bit to get it right so the grease would go in.
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Old 07-05-2017, 08:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

Using the proper reamer is the right way to go. The king pin reamers that were used back then had a lead or pilot that would go into the second hole. When finished the holes would be directly in line. What I did, with a lifetime of machine shop and machine tools, is turn about a 12 in long piece of water pipe, king pin size, minus .002 to .003 dia. With grinding compound and by hand quickly brought the bushings to size. Surprised me, but maybe a better fit than with reamer!

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Old 07-05-2017, 09:04 PM   #14
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

And I suppose I would be remiss if I didn't show you how I ream mine with one of my wife's wooden spoons, kerfed with a bandsaw and strips of cloth backed sandpaper torn from a sanding belt. The other end is chucked in a drill and spun until the kingpin is a perfect fit. Like the poster with the piece of pipe, the alignment is excellent. The machine shop is a great alternative for most of you, but I live on an island with no machine shop so it's a 35.00 ferry ride and then again to pick them up and that's two days lost from work so I figure out how to do it here at the shop.
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File Type: jpg painted frame and kingpins woodie 006.jpg (68.8 KB, 154 views)
File Type: jpg painted frame and kingpins woodie 007.jpg (81.0 KB, 148 views)
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:17 PM   #15
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

Has anyone tried the king pins with needle bearings ?
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:20 PM   #16
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

You don't need a ream or special tools.
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:47 PM   #17
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

I've never tried them but lots of negative reports on them.
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Old 07-06-2017, 07:43 AM   #18
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

They say honing gives the best results. I have heard of wrist pin bushings being expanded after being pressed in to give the tightest fit before final machining. GB lives on an island without a machine shop and I live in a city without one. It is getting harder to find places to do what we need.
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Old 07-06-2017, 08:02 AM   #19
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

Do them yourself, all this running around paying other people waiting on them not for me. Working on your car is part of the hobby and should be fun and rewarding! If I don't have a tool I borrow it (remember that works both ways). Befriend other mechanics its far cheaper and the knowledge they have you can't pay for (bring them coffee and a roll when visiting;-))) don't be cheap, nobody likes a freeloader.That is also why this forum is also a Great resource I appreciate the time and knowledge that people here give and hopefully I can give something in return that helps. Thanks!
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:49 AM   #20
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

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They say honing gives the best results. I have heard of wrist pin bushings being expanded after being pressed in to give the tightest fit before final machining. GB lives on an island without a machine shop and I live in a city without one. It is getting harder to find places to do what we need.
Google is the new "Let your fingers do the walking.", have you tried?
Stop in at Morgan's on Washington St., sounds like they will help, they are experienced in all engines and automotive machine shop work.
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Old 07-06-2017, 11:58 AM   #21
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

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Originally Posted by Russdadto5 View Post
Has anyone tried the king pins with needle bearings ?
I'm running the needle bearings on two cars. Works great.

The Needle bearings are required to to fit 1939 Lincoln front brakes on 1934 spindles on a 1934 three window coupe. 1937-1941 Kingpins are used.
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Old 07-06-2017, 12:08 PM   #22
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

What you need to do it yourself.

$32 bushing driver tool. Can be bought from Amazon by clicking here, or from Harbor freight.



You also need a .814 reamer. - available on Brattons for $150, or from ebay occasionally for around $25.

I like owning the tools, so that's the route I went. I've done about 6 sets of spindles now since owning the tools.

A machine shop will usually do it for you for around $30. You supply all the parts.

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Old 07-06-2017, 03:31 PM   #23
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

I already have a bushing driver set, I put new bushings in my Ford 8N tractor last year.
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Old 07-06-2017, 04:21 PM   #24
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

Yes I installed them in my 41, easy job, but still had the shimmy. Found I have a bent axle and that may be the cause, so I can't say yea or nay as to whether it's a fix or not. A few posters say they don't work. Al
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:57 PM   #25
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

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Originally Posted by Krylon32 View Post
I've never heard of a machine shop requiring the front axle to fit the kingpins to the spindles. I'd find another shop. I just had 3 pairs of 37/40 spindles I picked at the LARS swap meet glass beaded, re bushed and king pins fit for 40.00 a pair. I don't know if that's high or low?
That's an excellent price. Seems like going rate in NJ for a Sunnen hone fit is $100-$125.
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Old 07-07-2017, 07:17 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordors View Post
Google is the new "Let your fingers do the walking.", have you tried?
Stop in at Morgan's on Washington St., sounds like they will help, they are experienced in all engines and automotive machine shop work.
So isn't geography. Morgans is in Auburn MAINE. I'm in Mass. I do know where I can get some stuff done but I have seen the 3 major shops in the area close. Automotive machine shops do not exist like they used to.
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Old 07-07-2017, 07:35 AM   #27
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

There are lot's of shops that call themselves "automotive machinist". Watch for the warning signs like "You have to bring in the whole axle" statements. It's OK to ask questions.
Personally, I like the wooden spoon approach.
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Old 07-07-2017, 01:42 PM   #28
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

The only way to properly do it yourself is with what is called an "aligning reamer". This type of reamer is used when two holes (bushings) are to be reamed in alignment, such as in your spindles. It uses what is called a floating pilot sleeve to align the holes. These reamers are fairly expensive so a machine shop is an option. I'm sure some will chime in and say they do it all the time with a standard reamer and it's done all the time. You want both holes, bushings, to be in perfect alignment so that the king pin will push in with minimal resistance and an aligning reamer will do this. As to the needle bearing question, my answer is to not try to use them. I know of two cases where the bearings failed. Bearings are designed to rotate at an engineered speed and will last a long time doing so. The limited rotation of a left and right turn will allow premature failure. Also needle bearings are not designed to take the "shock load" that a front end will take. I'm sure people will chime in and say that the needle bearings they installed are great but there are thousands of early Fords and other makes that are using standard bushings with great success.
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Old 07-07-2017, 02:20 PM   #29
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^^^^^^^^ 100% agreement !
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Old 07-07-2017, 06:14 PM   #30
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You will be much more satisfied if you have them precision fitted at an automotive machine shop. There is no substitute for doing it right and it will serve you well for a long time. Trust me, if it works for wrist pins it will work for king pins.
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Old 07-07-2017, 07:56 PM   #31
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i agree with having them honed.u can do it other ways and thats fine but an accurate hone job is hard to beat.
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:50 PM   #32
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Yes I installed them in my 41, easy job, but still had the shimmy. Found I have a bent axle and that may be the cause, so I can't say yea or nay as to whether it's a fix or not. A few posters say they don't work. Al
Shimmy can be related to:
Loose tierod or draglink ends, worn steering box sector bushings or low tire pressure.
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Old 07-07-2017, 09:11 PM   #33
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

A Sunnen hone, a good kingpin reamer, or even GB Sisson's spoon tool can all do a satisfactory job in the hands of a good craftsman with an attention to detail.
The best tool is the man doing the job who knows what the outcome should be and works to get it right.
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Old 07-12-2017, 07:16 PM   #34
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A while ago, I spent $100 for a local engine rebuilder to do a pair. He acted as if he really didn't want to do them. But, then, I read GBSisson's post (#14) and I thought that maybe I could do it this time around. So, my wife didn't have a wooden spoon with the right size handle and the Depot didn't have any 5/8" dowel but I realized that some 1/2" copper water tube is actually 5/8" diameter. I cut one piece of the tube 8" long and another 3" long for use in a floppy coupling. There's also a piece of 1/2" dowel and some 1/4" brake line in it. (See photo.) GB doesn't say exactly what the sanding material he used was but I did buy some assorted wet/dry paper, crocus cloth and settled on 3M medium emery cloth which worked just fine. I cut a piece 7-1/2" square and used some Gorilla Tape about 1" wide to tape the emery to the long tube. That wouldn't roll up tight enough to fit into the unsized bushings so I cut off an inch or so so that it would fit inside the bushings. (Cutting a 45º angle on the outside end of the emery will help get the sanding drum into the bushing. I drove it with my 1/2" drill and it cut pretty well, oscillating in and out as the drum turned. It will cut well for a little spell but it soon lost "compression" and not cut so well. When it does this, withdraw the drum, unroll the emery insert a piece of paper under it. (I used a cover from a Harbor Freight flyer about 1-1/2" wide and 7-1/2" long.) When I was spinning the drum, I could see dust coming off the emery when I moved it in and out. I repeated the sanding operation and when it was no longer cutting, I switched in a piece of paper 3" wide. When that stopped cutting, I put in both pieces of paper, and then added some more. Keep sanding, switching ends of the spindle to ensure that you don't get too much material removed from one of the ends. When adjusting the paper fillers, keep an eye on the ID using a pair of calipers. As it gets near to the king pin OD, check fit with the king pin. If the king pin enters one of the bushings but not the other, remove a couple layers of paper from under the emery at the end that already fits.

This worked out really well. The drum cuts nice and slow so you don't have to worry about machining the bushings too large too fast. It also leaves a nice finish. AND, I GOT TO DO IT MYSELF!
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:43 PM   #35
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Default Re: Is there a tutorial on king pin r&r

I would highly recommend honing over reaming. It gives a much better fit. I do them that way on my sunnen machine. If you HAVE to use a reamer, DO ONLY ONE BUSHING at a time! if you push both out you cant get the reamer to center on the opposite bushing and the hole will come out crooked.
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Old 07-13-2017, 09:44 AM   #36
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Excellent job Pete! I use strips of aluminum oxide cloth backed sanding belts, beginning with 80 or 100 grit and finishing with 120 grit. Because of the slot I put in the dowel (or spoon) I use two strips of sanding belt about an inch wide and folded lengthwise into an 'L' shape. An advantage I have found is that by running the drill in reverse the abrasive strips tend to cam out and speed up the cutting process when needed. But Pete in the true shade tree spirit you used a variation on a theme and improvised with what was on hand and made some improvements such as the flexible coupling. Well done!
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Old 07-13-2017, 10:49 AM   #37
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GB & Pete: it's nice to read about people creating innovative solutions out of necessity. Shade tree mechanics at their finest! A while back I had to press a bearing onto shaft so heated it a little in my wife's oven and cooled the shaft in the refer. Worked perfectly. When she got back she smelled the hot oil/grease in the kitchen. Moral to the story is ask if you're going to use the kitchen for automotive uses!
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Old 07-13-2017, 10:54 AM   #38
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What you need to do it yourself.

$32 bushing driver tool. Can be bought from Amazon by clicking here, or from Harbor freight.

I got the exact set of bushing drivers a while back and I had to modify both sides of the 13/16" - 15/16" piece. First, I had to reduce the large diameter so it would fit into the spindle as I was pushing a bushing out. Second, I had to reduce the smaller diameter so it would fit into the new unsized bushing to press it in.
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