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#1 |
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I am going to R&R my head to add a higher compression unit. So today I disconnected the radiator hoses. Plugged the inlet hose on the side of the block then poured in a gallon of Muriatic acid. I let it sit for a few hours then removed the plug and let it drain. Stuck the hose in the outlet on the head and flushed out huge chunks of rust and grime. A flashlight in the block shows clean bare metal. Tomorrow I will switch the head and fill it with coolant and anti rust. Hopefully it will run cooler.
I guess it would be a good time to back flush the radiator too. ![]()
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#2 |
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I would never pour in muriatic acid. It will continue to eat the metal unless it's very well neutralized. Even the fumes from muriatic acid will quickly rust metal for several feet around. I'd pour in Evaporust and let it set for a few days.
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#3 |
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I used vinegar and let it sit a month, then back flushed the block only, then the radiator only. Lots of rust came out and I refilled with water and a cup of baking soda. Ran it a day or two and repeated the flushing, then did it again. After the third flushing I filled the works with 50/50 antifreeze. I also installed a 160 degree thermostat in the upper hose, just above the water pump. (S0 far it hasn't moved) I had soldered the stat to a rolled piece of copper that I had made into a 1.5 inch pipe just barely able to pound into the hose. Seems to be working fine and so far no rust appearing in the antifreeze.Temperature after running a half hour or so is slightly higher than it was without the thermostat, but just about 180 in the upper hose above the thermostat. Usually 165 on the lower hose.
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#4 |
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Any block that has been marinated in a gallon of muriatic needs to be rinsed well then marinated again in a solution of one pound of baking soda per gallon of water to neutralize the acid. As noted by a previous writer, muriatic acid will just keep on dissolving iron if not neutralized.
I saw a low mileage but very rusty diamond Model B block that received a stout bath in muriatic acid continue to dissolve over the course of a year. The guy that owned it commented on all the rust that fell out of it every time he moved it. By the time he took it in for boring and rebabbitting there were pin holes appearing in the top deck. |
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#5 |
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Would certainly agree with others. At a minimum, flush entire cooling system with clean water several times. Adding baking soda on initial flushings can only help. Only when you're sure it's thoroughly flushed and neutralized, drain and add coolant.
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#6 |
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#7 |
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Done repeatedly. :-)
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#8 |
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Not only bad with cast, but high carbon alloy steels are subject to hydrogen embittlement. Which can be caused by any acid, but HCL is the harshest.
The hydrogen can work its was in to the molecular structure of the steel and combine with it and form a gas that will build up enough pressure to break hardened steel. The plating industry is very cautious of this problem. It doesn't hurt to study it out a bit. A materials/metallurgist friend of mine in the nuclear industry assured me that a quick wash to clean wouldn't do any damage.(I am referring to hardened steel, not cast) I am pretty anal, I would run water with baking soda for a while in the engine if it had any Hcl put in it, just to be sure, then flush with phosphoric if nervous about rust. Last edited by 30 Tudor; 04-14-2017 at 08:01 PM. |
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#9 |
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So...what does the original poster, Chris; have to say?
Brian |
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#10 | |
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The next thing will be getting my beat up old radiator re-cored. ![]() PS I just noticed that the vinegar I bought at Costco is only 5% acid. Its not working very well.
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#11 |
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Vinegar takes a lot of time to do it's thing. I ran it straight for a few days and I know it wasn't long enough to do much good, so patience is your best virtue. I did quite a few flushes after dropping it pulled the lower connection off to give it a fast dump and refilled with 50/50 coolant. I know glycol can make it run 20 degrees hotter but the 3 row tube and 10 fpi recore has proven itself to be adequate. I also have a 160 thermostat as close as possible to the upper neck.
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#12 | |
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#13 | |
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#14 |
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Chris, when you remove the head look at the back of the block. Behind Number 4 there might be some blockage. I used a probe and air to clear it. Put rags in the cylinders first.
Bob |
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#15 |
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#16 | |
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#17 |
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Vinegar is one of the cheaper/safer/time consuming solutions for rust removal but it will leave debris in your cooling system and flash rusting will result in rust colored coolant until the block is passivated.
Phosphoric Acid will clean and convert rust but will not remove rust chunks. Evaporust type products are chelation agents that bind tightly to oxidized iron and pull it into solution so there will be no chunks left behind as with acids. I’ve used both Evapo-Rust and this much cheaper version and cannot tell the difference other than cost. Chelation agents are the more costly solution but provide the best results - They can also be used more than once.
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#18 |
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Thanks for the link to RUST 911.
That looks like the thing to buy, and I'll use that the next time I need to derust a block. |
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#19 |
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I've used Rust911 for 5 yrs. with superb results. It is an excellent product.I just do not understand why people play around with acids when this superior product is available. Works really well to derust the inside of the gas tank. It comes out spotless.
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#20 |
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PS I just noticed that the vinegar I bought at Costco is only 5% acid. Its not working very well.
5% is normal for vinegar I left it for 6 weeks in my 12 Buick radiator and it did a marvelous job! cleaned it out good. Patience is a virtue. |
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#21 |
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Chris, Muriatic will remove rust much better and quicker than vinegar. I'd try the muriatic again. For your baking soda neutralizing solution, add some liquid clothes detergent to it. The phosphates help to neutralize. I use 2oz of soda plus 2 oz of detergent per gallon of water. Leave the solution in there for about 15 minutes before rinsing.
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#22 | |
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#23 |
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My uncle's swather was overheating, so I put some muriatic acid in his radiator to clean it out. It cleaned it out so well it opened about 20 pin holes in the old radiator. I had to adapt a 62 Chevy radiator to fit it.
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#24 |
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How necessary is the baking soda flush after using vinegar?
Here is the bucket after my first vinegar flush; pretty nasty! To make draining easier, I jacked up the front until the 5 gal bucket fit under the engine pan. |
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#25 |
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I have heard that raw milk is a great neutralizer of things that are acid or to alkaline. For a chemical burn the fastest way to cool it and safest way is raw milk. Not a chemist but would the milk stop any acid from continue to eat away at the metal? Larry
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#26 |
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Baking soda will be cheaper than milk.
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#27 |
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In my reading, muriatic acid is never a good thing for rust removal. The damage can continue long after you think it looks pretty.
I did find that electrolytic rust removal will remove the left overs from the acid in my reading. I have found the good old wires and manual removal of the rust to be a great way to get rid of all the stuff in the block. Keep in mind not all what you find is rust. I was removing some casting sand too. Plus not all the flaky stuff, what you really need to remove, will come out with chemicals alone. |
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#28 |
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I agree with Kevin, and would never use muriatic acid as a rust remover. Just the fumes from the acid will rust all the metal in the room where it's stored. I now store it outside.
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#29 | |
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I have a magnet on a long flexible shaft. Also just a long flexible shaft. I put the shaft in a reversible drill motor and go down through all the water jackets in the block where rust wants to settle. The back ones will be the worst. After a few licks in both directions with the drill motor run the magnet down and you will be surprised at how much rust is on the magnet. Alternate the drill motor/shaft and the magnet until you have it all cleaned out or you are tired of doing it. You can get to all the water jackets from the top of the block. Also a good idea to remove the water inlet casting and go in through there. Periodically blow shop air through the jackets. The head usually does not clog with rust, but it is easy enough to clean it the same way. Once the head is back on I attach some fixtures I made up that will connect two garden hoses at the inlet and outlet castings. I then connect it to the hot water tap for the washing machine and let it flush until clean water comes out. I then reverse the hoses at the inlet and outlet and flush it more. This is done with the radiator off. Then I connect my fixtures to the radiator and repeat the procedure. This does a good job of eliminating rust from the block. The radiator however may have to be taken to a radiator shop and have the top and bottom tanks taken off and all the tubes rodded out and flushed. Tom Endy |
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#30 |
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Im currently doing a "cleaning" just finishing up after two weeks. I first filled my system with degreaser and ran that until hot and let cool and repeated about 5 times a day for 2 days. i drained it into a bucket and it came out black black black and slightly thick.
Then i filled the system with gasoline ran for 5 min until it started to get hot, boil (vapor lock) and let it cool for 35 min then repeat two more times. i drained it into clean white bucket it came out black black black and settled into some awfull stuff at the bottom. I repeated this one more time and got alot less black results but still dark grey. I then flushed the system back and forth and got large rust chunks and sandy bits out of both radiator and motor. Then i fulled with evapo-rusted leaving it overnight Starting it just to make sure it really pumped through the system. Again it came out black as night. flushed again with water till clear then ran gas again. Once again the gas came out black as all hell and then flushed with water until clear. I then ran Dawn Dish soap in there for about two hours as it ran in the drive. I flushed and got dark brown and small rust chunk. I then ran vinegar 2 quarts worth mixed with water as i drove the car around everywhere for two days. When i flushed it came out dark almost blackish crimson and with a slight viciousness to it. I flushed with water getting only small sandy flecks out and repeated the vinegar and driving for another 3 days. Today it flushed out still a crimson but a lighter brownish crimson. I flushed again. filled with gas, ran till hot, and left over night, in the AM i will drain and flush before filling it with a gallon of ammonia, a quart of hopps powder cleaner and a top it off with a gallon of water with about half a cup of dawn dish soap. I will let is sit for 20-30 min and this will strip the brass radiator of any scale, hard water residue or really ANYTHING, left on the brass radiator itself. (I use this method to clean clock movements after disassembly) it will strip them down even heavy oxidation to the point of pitting and after rinsing it will leave you with bright shiny almost polished looking brass. Then i will flush with water and fill with a 65/35 coolent mix. I dont necessarily recommend the gas and ammonia all this if you have any nabors as they may kill you. I had my neighbor Jerry come over a few times to make sure i wasent going to blow up the neighborhood (and he puts up with alot of crap from his white house turning back every year form the soot from my stove pipe burning waist oil to compressors and small explosions going off at all hours of the night! Poor bastard but i know the ammonia and hopps will just about drive him from his house tomorrow HaHaHa Last edited by 1928Pickuppain; 08-04-2018 at 04:09 AM. |
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#31 |
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I found that RUST 911 does a remarkable job of cleaning water passages.
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#32 | |
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I have tried electrolysis, phosphoric acid, muriatic acid, Evaporust, vinegar and a couple other solutions. All of them give good results but none were better than the molasses. It works, it is safe and it is the only method I use now. |
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#33 |
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Has anyone tried red devil lye ?
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#34 |
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As most people know, model A guys will go to almost no ends to save a couple of dollars, no matter how much it costs.
Aside from spending the $75 dollars to have a block commercially stripped, there is available a cheap, simple test to tell if there is any acidic residue left in the block. It is a litmus test kit. It will test for both acid and alkaline residue and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to use it. |
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