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Old 07-06-2016, 11:36 AM   #1
luvmyclassics
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Default Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

Time for me to order rear brake shoes for my F1.

Would appreciate hearing from barners on the advantages/disadvantages of bonded vs riveted shoes.
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Old 07-06-2016, 01:49 PM   #2
V8COOPMAN
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Default Re: Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

"Bonded" essentially means glued-on. Do you trust the 9-year-old kid somewhere in the FAR EAST that was smearing the glue on that day? Riveted for me......period! DD
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Old 07-06-2016, 02:13 PM   #3
Floyd
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Default Re: Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

Interesting thought on "who glued it". For me I have riveted NORS linings on my 32 because that is what NOS or NORS linings was set up for. For my 40 pickup, I have bonded linings. I used original Ford shoes and went into LA to a real brake lining company( large operation that manufactures and relines brakes for cars and trucks and wholesales them to most name brand parts places). and had bonded lining installed there. The price was crazy low compared to getting them from aftermarket places. More importantly , I know the lining material, the glue and the whole process was done correctly.
Brake lining work is kinda like clutches, you gotta go to the real places or you take lots of chances on how well it performs.
Just my opinion
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Old 07-06-2016, 02:15 PM   #4
51 MERC-CT
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Default Re: Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

I have not had any issues with the bonded shoes that came from NAPA.
The Mercury shoes are the same ones that are used on the F-1.
Considering that many vehicles put on millions of miles using bonded shoes with no issues, to me there is only one choice.
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Old 07-06-2016, 02:22 PM   #5
RalphG
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Default Re: Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

Ihad my heavy IH truck shoes bonded with new linings a few years ago. A local city brake shop does it. Now I need to repair the rear shoe on my 39 Deluxe as I damaged a lining pulling the drum. Going to need some good glue for that one.
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Old 07-06-2016, 03:21 PM   #6
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Default Re: Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

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If its non boosted a softer lining is best ,Ted
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Old 07-06-2016, 06:21 PM   #7
rotorwrench
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Default Re: Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

Two schools of thought on this. One; a person is generally skeptical about how long the bonding agent will hold. Two; when the riveted lining is worn down to the rivets, the drum will get scored.

I'm not picky any more. I've had both situations happen but the dis-bonded lining didn't ruin the drum.
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Old 07-06-2016, 06:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

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Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post
Two schools of thought on this. One; a person is generally skeptical about how long the bonding agent will hold. Two; when the riveted lining is worn down to the rivets, the drum will get scored.

I'm not picky any more. I've had both situations happen but the dis-bonded lining didn't ruin the drum.
I found an old car vendor that had an old roll of lining material, of course had asbestos in them. I riveted a set on and much improved stopping over my glazed bonded linings. Used brass rivets and my drums are off every year or so to pack the bearings. Rotorwrench, If your drums get scored it is because you used steel rivets and did not check your linings when/if you greased your bearings. JMHO
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Old 07-06-2016, 07:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

The brake shoe material itself is a big issue. The feds mandated a change from the previous asbestos material to the present material having a minimum amount of asbestos and way too much other stuff, including soft metal inclusions, in an effort to satisfy EPA regulations. This is what you get from virtually all brake shops, and it doesn't stop your car efficiently. To get the good old brake material, you'll have to go to a Friction Materials company that manufactures industrial friction products. I don't have e a link for you, but there are more than one of these outfits willing and eager to satisfy your needs. Another possible source, although I cannot confirm, would be from speed shops.
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Old 07-06-2016, 07:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

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Originally Posted by ford38v8 View Post
The brake shoe material itself is a big issue. The feds mandated a change from the previous asbestos material to the present material having a minimum amount of asbestos and way too much other stuff, including soft metal inclusions, in an effort to satisfy EPA regulations. This is what you get from virtually all brake shops, and it doesn't stop your car efficiently. To get the good old brake material, you'll have to go to a Friction Materials company that manufactures industrial friction products. I don't have e a link for you, but there are more than one of these outfits willing and eager to satisfy your needs. Another possible source, although I cannot confirm, would be from speed shops.
Alan. if you can find a source, that would be great. Post any results. Thanks
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Old 07-06-2016, 08:22 PM   #11
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Default Re: Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

I have n.o.s. Linings and rivets
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Old 07-06-2016, 10:02 PM   #12
Ross F-1
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Default Re: Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

I have riveted shoes on the front and bonded shoes on the rear of my F-1. All are NAPA products and no problems with either type. I have about 15k miles on the fronts, a fair amount of that in the mountains, wear is not measurable.

I was helping a friend with a Ford Ranger that (he thought) needed new rear brake shoes. The truck has 170k miles on the original shoes. They were at 75% lining thickness at least. They were riveted and one of the shoes had cracked across the rivet holes, that was causing a grab that he'd felt.
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Old 07-07-2016, 01:25 AM   #13
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Default Re: Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

There is a lot to think about in choosing linings.
This is stated with a distinct lack of current knowledge.
In 45 years of the trade, I have never seen a bonded lining fail. I have seen quite a few issues with riveted linings.
This is generic info:
Linings vary about as much as industrial plastics (Lots!)
Hard linings tend to be for higher speed applications.
Woven lining tend to be used for lower speed use.
Some linings (woven?) are better (work better) if they happen to get wet. Some (harder linings) feel like the brakes are non existent when wet. (thinking about off road use) (fjording) here, rather than cars on a highway.

To the original question, this is my advice. Take your shoes and drums to a proper brake shop. take some advice from someone who knows the game. Have the linings he suggests bonded to the shoes, and then have them radius ground to fit the drums.
This all assumes the drums are in good order (turned if needed and in spec) the wheel cylinders are also (good or new) (often old wheel cylinders will leak with new linings because the thicker linings push the wheel cylinder cups back in, to work on the rust pitted part of the cylinder bore)
Do a careful check of all the rest of the system, master cylinder, lines, hoses, etc. I am assuming a hydraulic system here.
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Old 07-07-2016, 07:44 AM   #14
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Default Re: Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

I have used both as well.now I buy the linings and rivet them on myself.the tools are cheap.also arcing them makes abig difference.
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Old 07-07-2016, 09:21 AM   #15
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Default Re: Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

There was an old school thought that riveted linings dissipate heat better than bonded linings. Just adding that to the mix.
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Old 07-07-2016, 09:37 AM   #16
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Default Re: Bonded or riveted brake shoes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldford2 View Post
Rotorwrench, If your drums get scored it is because you used steel rivets and did not check your linings when/if you greased your bearings. JMHO[/SIZE][/FONT]
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For one, I didn't rivet them so I have no idea what the rivet material was or who did the work. For two, the scored drums were on customer cars that I worked on and didn't own. Many folks don't do any maintenance at all including some of the folks in our hobby. I don't pull the drums on my old Mercury cars very often unless I suspect a problem or I know the front wheel bearings need service. The bearings are sealed on the rear end so I only go in there at mileage intervals if there are no outward signs of problems.

The one bonded lining I had fail was in a later model 64 Thunderbird and had been in service for 20 years or so. It released from the surface and rotated until it was blocked by the opposite shoe. I could feel the drag when I hit the brakes but it made it home OK at a lower rate of speed. A brake job later and all was OK.
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