Sludge in flathead pan.

[jon laing]

I am not sure if I have it but if I do is there any chemical treatmemt or other process to remove sludge short of taking the pan off? In the 50s the gas station owner poured gas into the pan, let it dissolve some of the sludge, drained it and put in new oil. It did some good but sounds like a poor idea to me. Jon Laing

[JM 35 Sedan]

That is definitely not a good idea. Whatever contaminants and other crud that's trapped in that sludge will not all drain out. Then it will be free to mix with new oil and circulate through the oiling system. Sometimes the most difficult ways to do something turn out to be the best way. JMHO

[jrhaelig]

Go ahead and drop the pan. It's a pain but most of us have done it. I couldn't get mine completely off because it was hung up on the crank shaft and the leaf spring U-bolts, but I reached in, wiped out and used a garden sprayer of gas (you should use diesel or solvent, though). Concentrate on that pump pick-up screen.

Get the new gaskets - especially the rear one in the pan.

Remember to clean the valley up top, too.

[flatheadfan]

First- I HAVE NEVER DONE THIS!

Back in the 30's and 40s a common method to clean the sludge out the oil pan was to drain off a couple of quarts of oil and replace it with kerosene. Then drive the car around the block and then drain the entire crankcase and replace it with new oil. Again, I know of old timers who have done this and claim it works great. But, I have never attempted to do it. So, do it at your own risk!

Tom

[bart78]

I would not put kerosene in there and run it. You might clog up some junk. Or worse if its a engine that has not been rebuilt. Some of the junk in that motor might be keeping things running. I have heard a few motors make some awful noises after being clean out. Just drop the pan and clean it out.

[blucar]

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There is no easy way to remove sludge from an engine.. All of the "shade-tree mechanic" tricks will only result in a dirty engine that has pretty well been ruined... In many cases the only thing that holds the engines together is the sludge..
Think about it... If the pan is all sludged up, so is the valve train valley..

[Step-down]

I agree about the kerosene treatment .....When I was kid I recall my Gran Dad would drain the oil in his Brockway pick up truck, treat with kerosene start then drain and add with new oil. Fox head oil ,don't know if I would use this treatment today

[rotorwrench]

At least diesel is somewhat oily. Kerosene isn't as much so. Neither is a lubricant to any great extent and would not build much pressure due to massive leak by on the bearings. It makes more sense to pull the pan and get out the putty knife & scrape the crud out. It would take a lot of fuel to loosen that layer of old oil soap out of the bottom and a lot longer period of running fuel in the sump than the bearings would be able to take in order to get it all out. When you start scraping it out of there you will know what I mean. That stuff doesn't just wash out of there.

[deuce_roadster]

I believe the sludge is a by-product of the old paraffin based oils and combustion contaminants turning into the gunk we all have seen. If it is in the pan it is also in the valley by the lifters and everywhere the oil goes and sits. If you do clean out the pan, don't fool yourself into thinking you've cleaned out the engine. Cleaning the pan and oil pump screen is a good idea but if there is that much sludge in the pan my guess is that it's close to time to rebuild the whole thing and start clean with new modern oil. Any of the new oils you put in the engine after cleaning the pan will probably start dissolving the gunk remaining and circulate it through the engine increasing wear. My 2 cents.

[chap52]

When I was in the military a friend would pour a can of ATF into the oil, run it for about five minutes, then drain and put in new oil. Don't know how good it was for his engine, but he would always brag about how clean his oil was after 3000 miles. Then he would do it again???

[B-O-B]

Best I can recall there was a product put out by Risolene(spellng) That was sold for flushing your engine. Never used it but kinda remember it came in yellow metal Qt can.

[Chris Nelson]

I had a 79 Cordoba (Chrysler) with 100,000 miles on it and decided to clean the engine with Rislone. I ran it about a week with that quart of Rislone in the engine. Going down the freeway I noticed a car that was passing me with really loud lifters. He was a block away when I realized it was my lifters I was hearing. Zero oil pressure!!! When I tore it apart, it was really worn out and the oil pan was filled so full of gunk that the pump couldn't get any oil. The timing chain could be lifted off the timing sprockets. I have never since used any snake oil in any engine I own. I just finished cleaning out a 57 Olds J-2 engine and it was really gunked up. Replaced the flat cam and lifters, cleaned out the valve gallery and the pan and it runs like a new engine. No snake oil for me.

[jon laing]

Great advice. Now how do I determine if I have a sludge problem? I just bought the stock 1939 ford. It had a frame off restoration and looks great but I do not know it the engine was rebuilt. I plan on getting a compression check. Perhaps that will give me a clue. Jon Laing

[ken ct]

Commen sense you would remove the intake manifold and if you have sludge there its in the pan also!! ken ct.

[Chris Nelson]

Ken is right. Pull the intake and see what you find. If it's clean, then you probably wont have to pull the pan. If there is crusty buildup of old oil sludge, pull the pan and clean it all up.

[Brendan]

the best way to clean the sludge out of the pan is to pull it. it took me about 2 hrs just to clean the pan after I puled it. I got it so clean that you could cook your soup in it

[flatford8]

Ya I agree......If your gonna clean it.....clean it all....a half a$$ed job will just get sludggy stuff floating around and cause more damage......Mark

[OLD...BILL]

I agree with most PULL THE PAN AND CLEAN IT ..the only way to go,,, todays oil keep everything in suspension, so when you change the oil, it all go's out, the pan stays clean....your best "pich-a-boo", is to pull at intake as Ken says, if the lifter valley is clean, its a good change the pan is clean also,.... Hope its all clean and you can drive it.... OLD....BILL

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Brendan

the best way to clean the sludge out of the pan is to pull it. it took me about 2 hrs just to clean the pan after I puled it. I got it so clean that you could cook your soup in it

Brendan, I thought that soup I had at the hotel in Lake Tahoe tasted a bit oily....now I know why

[B-O-B]

Now how do I determine if I have a sludge problem? You ask.
How about removing the drain plug & fish a wire with a loop in it or a flat piece of metal in the hole & see what comes out.

[Kahuna]

B-O-B has it right again

[oldscout]

I have a 54 Pontiac with a flathead 6cyl in it. I pulled the pan to clean it, and when I got the sludge out the pan looked new inside, not a bit of rust. It did have 2 small pin holes in the clean metal where acid ate right through the metal. I had to weld them up or she would have leaked the new oil right out. The sludge kept the oil from leaking.

[Ross F-1]

Recently had the opportunity to pull a '49 pickup's never-opened engine. The engine ran OK but had a cylinder with real low compression. It really didn't smoke much. Here's what we found. Don't be surprised to see anything different! The draft tube was nearly plugged solid.

[Lawson Cox]

Or simply stick your finger in and rub it around in the pan as far as you can. You'll see if it has sludge or not.

[VeryTangled]

Hello Everyone, If you touch or get into disturbing some of that stuff like in post #23, I'd recommend gloves and respirator. Likely what we'd call contaminated by today's standards. Save it and dispose of properly.

-VT/JeffH

[mercman from oz]

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A lot of people have suggested various fixes, but in the end, removing the Pan is the best fix. While you have the Pan off, make sure that you remove those little "hidden" Freeze Plugs, & poke some object up those holes to dislodge all the rust that has accumulated inside the block. You will be amazed at how much rubbish comes out. This is a very worthwhile exercise if you decide to remove the Pan.
Make sure you go the extra mile & remove these Freeze Plugs if you decide to remove the Pan.

[jon laing]

How do I identify a FREEZE PLUG? How many are there? Jon Laing

[mercman from oz]

These Freeze Plugs are only visible after the Pan is removed. There are 4 of them, 2 on each side. They are the only 3/4" in Diameter & are domed.
A few years back, I noticed that I had Water in my Oil in my 34 Ford.
Some people suggested that I had a cracked Head or blown Gasket.
I didn't want to remove an Aluminium Head unnecessarily, so I got to thinking what are other causes of water leaking into the Oil? I decided to remove the Sump Pan while the motor was still in the car. Sure enough, one of these small Freeze Plugs was leaking & was the cause of Water leaking into the Oil.
Removed all 4, cleaned out the Sludge that had built up & put all new Brass Plugs in & replaced the Pan. Problem solved. It was amazing how much sludge came out of these Holes when these 4 Freeze Plugs were removed.

[deuce_roadster]

Those "freeze plugs" are in holes whose purpose was to get core sand out of the block when first cast. They have nothing to do with preventing freezing. How many blocks have you seen that have been frozen?

[mercman from oz]

I live in Australia so our Blocks don't Freeze, however, they do build up a lot of sludge & this stops the water flow. Before I removed these Freeze Plugs, my car overheated. Now that I have removed all this rubbish from the block, it runs cool again. If you are going to removed the Pan, I recommend that you removed these Plugs & clean out the Block while you are at it. It is very worthwhile.

[jon laing]

Where do I get replacement freeze plugs? Jon Laing

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Originally Posted by jon laing

Where do I get replacement freeze plugs? Jon Laing

Any parts store should have them or can get them, Dorman is a popular brand, I believe there 3/4in. dish plugs. Sometimes the shoulder that the dish plug sets against is rotted off, If so just run a 3/4 drill in the hole and cut it off and use a 3/4in. cup plug. Walt

[TagMan]

I ALWAYS pull the pan on any new (to me) engine I acquire and have for the last 50+ years. I almost always find a lot of sludge that takes a while to clean out and is one of the dirtiest jobs there is.

Why anyone would put gasoline, kerosene or any other product in an engine, start it up, allow the sludge to circulate through the engine, drain it and expect that process to not cause damage is beyond me!

There isn't any easy way to do this, even in this age of instant gratification. Take the time, make the effort and do it right. In the long run, it's a lot easier & cheaper than having to pull the engine and have it rebuilt.

[Marv]

If i remember right some of the Ford owner manuals recommends adding kerossine to your engine oil at colder temperatures to thin the oil and you drive it that way. Back then they did not have detergent oil that i know about, so what junk was that cutting loose.?

[billwill]

Most of that sludge is becaue the engine was not running hot enough

[ken ct]

Originally Posted by jon laing

Where do I get replacement freeze plugs? Jon Laing

At an automotive parts store I believe. ken ct.

[TagMan]

Some of the sludge will form if the engine is not run for at least 20-minutes to completely warm up the oil and get rid of the water formed by the combustion process. Some of the sludge also is made up of minute bits of babbit material from the bearings.