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Old 11-25-2021, 09:51 PM   #1
35ragtop
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Default 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

Hi guys,
on my new build, the rebuilt generator is not being regulated by the new voltage regulator. When I rev the engine the voltage keeps climbing 16 v + no sign of cutting out.
Is there a way to check if the VR is bad or just needing an adjustment? How to adjust in that case?
I have shown the way I wired it up, in case I've messed up.
any suggestions welcome
thanks Dave h
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File Type: jpg vr (2).jpg (76.7 KB, 176 views)
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Old 11-25-2021, 10:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

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Originally Posted by 35ragtop View Post
Hi guys,
on my new build, the rebuilt generator is not being regulated by the new voltage regulator. When I rev the engine the voltage keeps climbing 16 v + no sign of cutting out.
Is there a way to check if the VR is bad or just needing an adjustment? How to adjust in that case?
I have shown the way I wired it up, in case I've messed up.
any suggestions welcome
thanks Dave h



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Old 11-26-2021, 12:03 AM   #3
cas3
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

Not an electronics wizard, but I would first clean all the points, and check that none are stuck.
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Old 11-26-2021, 12:59 AM   #4
35ragtop
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

Hi Cas, thanks , its a brand new unit, which of course doesnt mean much these days. Will check them.
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Old 11-26-2021, 06:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

Brand new reg but is it a FORD type to match the FORD generator. Has the generator been tested in a test bench to see if it charges without the reg. Seems to be a lot of wires on that reg that are not normally there. Your circuit diagram looks OK. Make sure that the reg base has a good ground. Dont touch any reg adjustments unless you REALLY know what you are doing. Tell us the complete story. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 11-26-2021, 08:09 AM   #6
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

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That doesn't look like my regulators. all my generators are Ford. The Ford generators supply power to the F terminal. The GM regulators ground the field terminal. Unless you have a GM generator there is a mismatch.
Mart.
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Old 11-26-2021, 03:10 PM   #7
35ragtop
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

Thanks Koates and Mart, a bit more information.
The generator was rebuilt and tested by a well known and reputable, auto electrician of advanced years who helps local v8 ers regularly, so I believe that its good and is definitely charging.
The regulator however, I got from a supplier and is of an unknown brand , but looked like a Ford type.
It has terminals marked E, D and WL, (common terminal), F, and B with two common terminals. The case is insulated from the firewall but the E terminal is grounded via a wire to the E terminal on the generator.I have checked that this is grounded.
The D,WL terminal I have used for the Gen connection. F goes to the field on the gen. The B goes directly to the battery via the ammeter. Because the B has two terminals, I have used this for power supply to the dash fuse box and for the top motor.( rightly or wrongly)
thats the full story.
Dave
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Old 11-26-2021, 05:21 PM   #8
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

Dave, your regulator is a replacement type made in India like most are. It looks very much like a LUCAS replacement type which could be OK to match the FORD type generator being a field to generator or armature circuit. I suggest you get your old auto electrician friend to check it out, he will know whats up with it, so I suggest that you dont mess with it at all. Did you get an instruction sheet or spec sheet with this reg ? You could do this test for a try. Remove the field wire off its regulator terminal and connect it over on to the generator terminal. Start engine and rev up a bit and you should have a high charge in amps on your dash ammeter. What you are doing here is removing the voltage and current regulators out of the field circuit and only leaving the cut out in circuit. Do that and report back. Regards Kevin.
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Old 11-27-2021, 08:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

Ok thanks Kevin,
i will try it tomorrow and check back in. I didnt get an instruction sheet with it.
regards
Dave
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Old 11-27-2021, 09:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

In the "Corvette World", correct functioning, properly dated voltage regulators are very difficult to source. Several years ago, I gutted the case (which has all of the numbers and codes) and installed a small solid state voltage regulator in it. It solved an overcharging problem on my '67 that I had been chasing for years and it hasn't skipped a beat since.

Since the judges can't remove the cover, there is no way to detect it. Since you have converted to 12 volts already, this may be a solution; you could even find a non-functioning genuine Ford 6 volt regulator and use the case and fool (well, maybe not), everyone. It would clean up the wiring a bit, as well.
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Old 11-28-2021, 10:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

Thanks tubman, I have read your posts on that previously and was wondering about getting one of the 1960 s Mustang electronic ones that are on ebay.
I tried Koates idea with the field wire. It made no difference to the ammeter reading which only moves about a quarter of its travel. So no high amp charge showing. The voltmeter attached at the battery confirms that there is a charge coming out of the generator 16+v when revved up.
I might try and borrow a known good unit and see if that works.
Dave
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Old 11-29-2021, 02:08 AM   #12
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

Dave, first of all I suggest you dont go near any electronic regulators. The ones tubman is talking about are for alternators only,, and GM at that which have a different field circuit to Ford systems. The only mustang that had a generator was the very first one, ie, 1964 1/2 model. All other mustangs have alternators. The test I asked you to do should have allowed the generator to charge flat out with the ammeter pointer on full charge with some revs up of course.
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Old 11-29-2021, 02:21 AM   #13
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

Add to post #12. Either your generator has issues or your ammeter is not reading correctly. You have not stated what car you are working on. I would also like to see a good pic of the generator. You could take the car or just the generator and regulator back to your auto electrician and have him run them up in his test bench. Otherwise you are just messing around with no end in sight. I will say again the generator internal field connections have to match the type of regulator you have. Ford and GM are usually different systems. Regards, Kevin.
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Old 11-29-2021, 04:48 AM   #14
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

thanks Kevin,
the car is a 1948 mercury. now on 12 volts. I will try another ammeter. I did suspect this original one. If that doesnt work I will take both gen and reg up to Brisbane to be checked.
Thanks for the tip on the electronic unit, I wondered about that compatibility.
Dave
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Old 11-29-2021, 12:55 PM   #15
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Default Regulator NOT Regulating

There was a fellow making solid state regulators for generators under the name of "Dynamo Systems" or somesuch, but I neglected to buy one, and he seems to have retired or passed on. They had numerous types with authentic looking period covers. They were very well made.

There is solid state 12 volt generator regulator available that is said to work, though I haven't tried it. That is, the common Bosch unit for 1960s Volkswagen Bugs. Of course it won't look period correct. It might prove useful to know on a roadtrip.

It is important to follow proper procedure when servicing regulators/generators, very often well meaning but incorrect information is dispensed authoritatively with respect to the necessity or method of polarizing a generator. Fords use a different method than other makes of grounding the field and using jumper wires or shorting across regulator terminals will permanently damage the regulator.

For all that some people claim they seem to only get 3 to 5 years regular use out of a regulator regardless of brand or manufacturer and they just sort of stop working. It is easy to see why many opt for an alternator. The regulators are touchy and do not lend themselves at all to ham handed attempts at cleaning or adjustment.
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Old 11-29-2021, 02:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

Be sure the regulator is properly grounded. There is usually a brass grommet in on of the mounting holes. Clean paint and grease from the area of that, and securely tighten the mounting screw. Some aftermarket regulators have a post for a ground wire.
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Old 11-29-2021, 03:41 PM   #17
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

I still don't think that's a Ford regulator.
The ones I have used look like this:
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Old 11-29-2021, 05:07 PM   #18
35ragtop
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

Hi and thanks all for your input.
Here is an update. I changed the ammeter and with the Field wire connected to the Gen terminal it shows a good 30 amp plus charge when revved up. So to me it means that my gen is good. Here is a photo of the gen as Koates requested. The wire with the yellow tag is connected to the earth terminal on the regulator. There is a good path to earth from the generator body.
Mart that is the type of reg I intend to buy if this reg proves to be a dud. Unless I have something hooked up wrong. Koates suggested that it was a Lucas type, but is unbranded.
Dave
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File Type: jpg gen2.jpg (49.1 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg gen.jpg (60.4 KB, 11 views)
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Old 11-29-2021, 07:19 PM   #19
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Default Re: 12 volt Regulator NOT Regulating

I have been using that Bosch 12v regulator that Crankster mentioned for 3 years now with no troubles. It holds the charge to no higher than 13.7 volts. And since you are now with a regulator that looks nothing like the original, even though the Bosch is solid state, and also looks nothing like the original, it might work well for what you are doing. i think it cost me about 30 to 35 dollars. Terry
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