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Old 11-18-2021, 12:52 PM   #1
Bob Bidonde
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Default Cost of Running Burtz Engine

I want to hear from those running a Burtz engine. If I were to buy a Burtz engine for $3900, what is the total cost to get it running without any extras?
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Old 11-18-2021, 02:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

I look forward to hearing from those running the Burtz engine, also. I have a 1931 Ford Model AA pickup truck, and from the know details, this engine would be a perfect fit for my pick-up truck. Anxiously awaiting any feedback from the Burtz engine.
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Old 11-18-2021, 04:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

I very much doubt any of those engines will be put together with no extras. The reason people buy them is for the ability they have for more power and stamina. I think VERY few will be assembled with a standard head for example and most will have a down draught carburettor and a cam as well and that is a minimum.
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Old 11-18-2021, 04:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde View Post
I want to hear from those running a Burtz engine. If I were to buy a Burtz engine for $3900, what is the total cost to get it running without any extras?
Been wondering the same. Surprised someone hasn't ran an ad in the Restorer on News next to the Burtz ad.
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Old 11-18-2021, 05:10 PM   #5
Ray in La Mesa
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

I would think it would be favorable to a rebuilt original engine, with the added bonus of new alloy material in the parts verses fatigued, crack repaired original blocks. The labor cost of pouring, boring & fitting babbitt would bring them close in price.
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Old 11-18-2021, 05:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

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Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde View Post
I want to hear from those running a Burtz engine. If I were to buy a Burtz engine for $3900, what is the total cost to get it running without any extras?
That depends on how you plan on building. The Burtz kit has 5 main journals for crank and camshaft. Itís pressure oil lubed. The crankshaft is, dynamically balanced, counterweighted on each side of all 4 new forged rods. It takes a takes a radial lip seal in the rear. You can either install a 3 journal camshaft or 5 journal cam. All of the inserts are the same as a small block Chevy with 2Ē journal on the rods and mains.

I have over 12,000 miles on my Burtz engine that runs better than my old A engine with less vibration and smoother quieter. As far as Iím concerned you get a lot more bang for your buck with a Burtz kit. Iím getting another Burtz for my pickup beings the engine thatís in it is tired and Iím not wasting money on a tired and stressed block, crank, rods etc engine.
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Old 11-18-2021, 09:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Hello I have a burtz block on order and plan to build it stock but with higher compression head . Had bad experience with engine shops locally only seem interested in Chevrolet race engines still waiting on Buick engine.
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Old 11-18-2021, 09:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

I plan on building one stock with high compression head as well…stay tuned.
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Old 11-18-2021, 10:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

No doubt the Burtz engine is better designed and engineered than Henry's original A. To my mind using it is not much different than using a Pinto engine as was used in the Shay, or any other after market engine. To each his own. I am not a purist but I do like the authenticity factor of using the original engine, and mods of a type that were available back in the day if that is fun for you. Hey, what's the fun (and challenge) of owning a Model A if you do not have a knock, rattle, miss, oil, water or gas leak, timing problem, occasional breakdown, etc. I do hope the organizations do not start recognizing the Burtz as a Model A equivalent engine and accepting it in judging and competition.
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Old 11-18-2021, 10:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Without any extras: In my motor shop, the cost of a Burtz long block without a flywheel and clutch would be $6,500.00
This is using a decked original head, reground original camshaft, new oil pump drive gear and a modified original oil pump that includes a pressure relief and greater flow.
Original and new parts are painted to meet judging standards. Add about $525.00 for a new Burtz flywheel, new V-8 style pressure plate, new ring gear, clutch disk and input shaft bearing. Add about $150 for an oil filter.

Others will have different costs.

From my cost records and recent builds, the cost of a Burtz engine is about $1,700.00 more than a Model A non-pressurized long block. Considering you are getting full oil pressure, 5 main journals @ 2" diameter, a fully counterweighted crankshaft, beefy rods and a rear main seal for $1,700 more than the cost of rebuilding an original block...I think it's a good deal.

I have Burtz engine #7 topped with a Miller High-Speed head in my '31 S/W Town Sedan with about 6,700 miles on it. I'm very satisfied with it.

I understand and respect those that long to keep the Model A's original and those who want a more durable engine or performance engine. To each his own...but I happen to be one of the latter.

Good Day!
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Old 11-18-2021, 10:46 PM   #11
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

I agree with PC/SR's post.

If I wanted to put a modern Engine in my Model A ,I would see no point in owning it.
To me part of the experience of driving my Model A is to experience the Model A as it sounded and drove as it did in my A's case in 1930, warts and all.
I would definitely pay more to rebuild a original block if my A's engine needed a rebuild.

I feel that replacing the original block/ engine with a modern repro is the same as putting a diesel engine in an Ocean liner that originally was powered with a steam turbine. It is not the same. It has lost something that makes it unique.

I know that the Burtz Engine is smoother more reliable , more powerful than an original engine/block , but it is destroying the soul of the vehicle.

All things being equal If I were given the choice of buying a Model A that had an original rebuilt Engine or a Model A with a Burtz block I would go for the "A " with the original block engine every time.
I would pay extra for one with the original block. More desirable in my opinion.

This is my personal preference. Time will tell which way it pans out.
Would you buy a1930 Packard with an origional Engine/block or one with a repro block ? Which one is more desirable ?

Mark.
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Old 11-18-2021, 11:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARKA View Post
I agree with PC/SR's post.

If I wanted to put a modern Engine in my Model A ,I would see no point in owning it.
To me part of the experience of driving my Model A is to experience the Model A as it sounded and drove as it did in my A's case in 1930, warts and all.
I would definitely pay more to rebuild a original block if my A's engine needed a rebuild.

I feel that replacing the original block/ engine with a modern repro is the same as putting a diesel engine in an Ocean liner that originally was powered with a steam turbine. It is not the same. It has lost something that makes it unique.

I know that the Burtz Engine is smoother more reliable , more powerful than an original engine/block , but it is destroying the soul of the vehicle.

All things being equal If I were given the choice of buying a Model A that had an original rebuilt Engine or a Model A with a Burtz block I would go for the "A " with the original block engine every time.
I would pay extra for one with the original block. More desirable in my opinion.

This is my personal preference. Time will tell which way it pans out.
Would you buy a1930 Packard with an origional Engine/block or one with a repro block ? Which one is more desirable ?

Mark.
I totally agree with you. I want a stock A like my dad drove. Wayne
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Old 11-19-2021, 02:01 AM   #13
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

I think you would have to be pretty good to tell the difference in one compared to the original.
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Old 11-19-2021, 03:13 AM   #14
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

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...t is destroying the soul of the vehicle....

i have to agree.
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Old 11-19-2021, 05:11 AM   #15
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

“I’m getting another Burtz for my pickup beings the engine that’s in it is tired and I’m not wasting money on a tired and stressed block, crank, rods etc”

Therein lays the problem. Running out of original blocks and internals that are rebuildable for good service.
Also running out of craftsmen to rebuild original stuff.

Anyone post a pic of Burtz engine in a car?

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Old 11-19-2021, 09:42 AM   #16
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Thanks Dave in Maine, you are the only one who answered my question. Here is why I asked. I need a replacement for a Model "B" engine that is not salvageable.


I have a quote of $4500 for a rebuilt Model "B" short block where I provide the engine. Adding another $500 to get the engine into running condition including a new 6:1 cylinder head, studs, gaskets, etc., plus the cost of a Model "B" engine core, my cost for a rebuilt Model "B" engine will be about $5500.


So the comparison is $5500 for a rebuilt Model "B" engine and $6500 plus shipping for a Burtz engine.



When I started playing with Model A's back in 1962, a rebuilt short block from Sears Roebuck was $39. In 1970, I paid $300 for a rebuild Model "A" long bloc. My my, the cost of our hobby has skyrocketed!
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Old 11-19-2021, 10:19 AM   #17
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Bob Bidonde,
I started with a "B" block in my '31 S/W and had it fail to cracks. I built up another "B" in milder form to lessen the chance of failure again. I was not satisfied with the performance as I plan to pull a camper on a road trip. I replaced it with the Burtz engine topped with a Miller High-Speed head and now have what I feel is necessary to pull the camper. I am not looking to remain stock but like the use of a 4 cylinder block that looks stock.
Good luck with whatever you choose.

FYI: Once assembled, there is only one area on the Burtz block that is an indication it's not an original block. If I did not point it out as to where this is, it would escape all but the very observant.

Good Day!
Dave in Minnesota

Last edited by Dave in MN; 11-22-2021 at 07:14 AM.
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Old 11-19-2021, 10:55 AM   #18
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Sounds like the price difference between the two options, isn't a deal killer.

Me, I'd spring a few extra bucks for the reliability you will have with Mr. Burtz' new block package. That alone buys peace of mind and would be well worth it to me.

Dennis is proof positive enough with his '29 Tudor with 12,000 miles
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Old 11-19-2021, 10:59 AM   #19
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

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Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois View Post
Sounds like the price difference between the two options, isn't a deal killer.

Me, I'd spring a few extra bucks for the reliability you will have with Mr. Burtz' new block package. That alone buys peace of mind and would be well worth it to me.

Dennis is proof positive enough with his '29 Tudor with 12,000 miles
What you say makes good sense ( cents )! Wayne
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Old 11-19-2021, 11:28 AM   #20
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Hello again, as I mentioned I plan to build a Burtz engine with the high compression head , I can understand those wanting an original engine and appreciate those that have built up high points cars. My roadster was converted to hydraulic brakes before I got it also the more I worked on it maybe a collection of flea market parts. My goal is to have a driver type car.Better than a sbc !
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Old 11-19-2021, 01:02 PM   #21
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Again, to each his own, if you want a totally stock Model A, that’s fine, and if you want a more reliable engine that great too. It’s your car, do what you want with it. I’m just wondering how many of those that want a totally stock Model A have installed high compression heads, overdrive and other modifications. If you want the total experience then try to get 46 octane gas.

David Serrano
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Old 11-19-2021, 01:02 PM   #22
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

PC/SR, Mark, and Wayne,
Thank you for your comments that are copied below.


No doubt the Burtz engine is better designed and engineered than Henry's original A. To my mind using it is not much different than using a Pinto engine as was used in the Shay, or any other after market engine. To each his own. I am not a purist but I do like the authenticity factor of using the original engine, and mods of a type that were available back in the day if that is fun for you. Hey, what's the fun (and challenge) of owning a Model A if you do not have a knock, rattle, miss, oil, water or gas leak, timing problem, occasional breakdown, etc. I do hope the organizations do not start recognizing the Burtz as a Model A equivalent engine and accepting it in judging and competition.
PC/SR


I agree with PC/SR's post.
If I wanted to put a modern Engine in my Model A ,I would see no point in owning it.
To me part of the experience of driving my Model A is to experience the Model A as it sounded and drove as it did in my A's case in 1930, warts and all.
I would definitely pay more to rebuild a original block if my A's engine needed a rebuild.
I feel that replacing the original block/ engine with a modern repro is the same as putting a diesel engine in an Ocean liner that originally was powered with a steam turbine. It is not the same. It has lost something that makes it unique.
I know that the Burtz Engine is smoother more reliable , more powerful than an original engine/block , but it is destroying the soul of the vehicle.
All things being equal If I were given the choice of buying a Model A that had an original rebuilt Engine or a Model A with a Burtz block I would go for the "A " with the original block engine every time.
I would pay extra for one with the original block. More desirable in my opinion.
This is my personal preference. Time will tell which way it pans out.
Would you buy a1930 Packard with an origional Engine/block or one with a repro block ? Which one is more desirable ?
Mark


I totally agree with you. I want a stock A like my dad drove.
Wayne




The “New Engine” consists of 3 parts (cylinder block, crankshaft, and connecting rod) that replace three frail original parts that often fail due to antique engineering, miss-machining in prior rebuilds, cracks, fatigue, etc.

All interfaces on the “New Engine” allow the use of stock bolt-on parts and through laser scanning, the exterior of the new cylinder block is accurate within a few wavelengths of light to an original cylinder block.

If built stock, the appearance and performance of the "New Engine" is identical to a Model A engine as it rolled off the assembly line.

You can still use the “New Engine” and have a stock Model A like your Dad drove and experience all of the rattles, miss-firing, oil leaks, water leaks, gas leaks, timing problems, and occasional breakdowns because all attaching parts that cause these problems can be worn out original parts.

Last edited by Terry Burtz, Calif; 11-19-2021 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Misspelled word
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Old 11-19-2021, 01:19 PM   #23
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif View Post
PC/SR, Mark, and Wayne,
Thank you for your comments that are copied below.


No doubt the Burtz engine is better designed and engineered than Henry's original A. To my mind using it is not much different than using a Pinto engine as was used in the Shay, or any other after market engine. To each his own. I am not a purist but I do like the authenticity factor of using the original engine, and mods of a type that were available back in the day if that is fun for you. Hey, what's the fun (and challenge) of owning a Model A if you do not have a knock, rattle, miss, oil, water or gas leak, timing problem, occasional breakdown, etc. I do hope the organizations do not start recognizing the Burtz as a Model A equivalent engine and accepting it in judging and competition.
PC/SR


I agree with PC/SR's post.
If I wanted to put a modern Engine in my Model A ,I would see no point in owning it.
To me part of the experience of driving my Model A is to experience the Model A as it sounded and drove as it did in my A's case in 1930, warts and all.
I would definitely pay more to rebuild a original block if my A's engine needed a rebuild.
I feel that replacing the original block/ engine with a modern repro is the same as putting a diesel engine in an Ocean liner that originally was powered with a steam turbine. It is not the same. It has lost something that makes it unique.
I know that the Burtz Engine is smoother more reliable , more powerful than an original engine/block , but it is destroying the soul of the vehicle.
All things being equal If I were given the choice of buying a Model A that had an original rebuilt Engine or a Model A with a Burtz block I would go for the "A " with the original block engine every time.
I would pay extra for one with the original block. More desirable in my opinion.
This is my personal preference. Time will tell which way it pans out.
Would you buy a1930 Packard with an origional Engine/block or one with a repro block ? Which one is more desirable ?
Mark


I totally agree with you. I want a stock A like my dad drove.
Wayne




The ďNew EngineĒ consists of 3 parts (cylinder block, crankshaft, and connecting rod) that replace three frail original parts that often fail due to antique engineering, miss-machining in prior rebuilds, cracks, fatigue, etc.

All interfaces on the ďNew EngineĒ allow the use of stock bolt-on parts and through laser scanning, the exterior of the new cylinder block is accurate within a few wavelengths of light to an original cylinder block.

If built stock, the appearance and performance of the "New Engine" is identical to a Model A engine as is rolled off the assembly line.

You can still use the ďNew EngineĒ and have a stock Model A like your Dad drove and experience all of the rattles, miss-firing, oil leaks, water leaks, gas leaks, timing problems, and occasional breakdowns because all attaching parts that cause these problems can be worn out original parts.
Too funny, Mr. Burtz. Thanks for clearing that up!!
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Old 11-19-2021, 01:34 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by California Travieso View Post
Again, to each his own, if you want a totally stock Model A, thatís fine, and if you want a more reliable engine that great too. Itís your car, do what you want with it. Iím just wondering how many of those that want a totally stock Model A have installed high compression heads, overdrive and other modifications. If you want the total experience then try to get 46 octane gas.

David Serrano
I wonder the same. Even a Snyder 5.5 head that resembles a stock head can easily be spotted.
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Old 11-19-2021, 02:16 PM   #25
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde View Post
I have a quote of $4500 for a rebuilt Model "B" short block where I provide the engine. !
Letís compare short block to short block. The cam you put in your B can be the same as a Burtz block. The gears are the same. The pistons are the same as well the rings. The inserts in the Burtz block most likely always be available, as well the rear main seal. The cost for either is not much different, except the B block is old, stressed, prone to cracks, most likely has rust build up in the coolant passages, and the B is not the same quality cast iron as used in todays engines. How long did the B engine last since it was last rebuilt? As Terry Burtz mentioned the Burtz block can be made to look exactly, sound exactly, and run exactly as a Model A engine.

Now $4500 for a rebuilt Model B short block plus an engine you provide. How much do you expect to pay for a B engine if you can find one that is rebuildable?
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Old 11-19-2021, 03:28 PM   #26
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The main issue that l have with the new block is that l WILL KNOW that the engine is a new reproduction .

I don't care if the new block is indistinguishable from an old block in appearance and others think it is a original block the fact does not change ,
It is NOT a original Ford manufactured block.

This is very important for me.

Mark.
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Old 11-19-2021, 03:37 PM   #27
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Quote:
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The main issue that l have with the new block is that l WILL KNOW that the engine is a new reproduction .

I don't care if the new block is indistinguishable from an old block in appearance and others think it is a original block the fact does not change ,
It is NOT a original Ford manufactured block.

This is very important for me.

Mark.
That is all well and good for YOU and I fully understand where you are coming from. But the O/P, who originally ask the question, already has a "B" block which wouldn't have been original to his Vicky in the first place, so why not use a Burtz Block if the cost is within reason?
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Old 11-19-2021, 03:49 PM   #28
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Quote:
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The main issue that l have with the new block is that l WILL KNOW that the engine is a new reproduction .

I don't care if the new block is indistinguishable from an old block in appearance and others think it is a original block the fact does not change ,
It is NOT a original Ford manufactured block.

This is very important for me.

Mark.
Then don't buy it. Seems like a simple solution to me, I was hoping you had something to add in response to the original poster's question.
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Old 11-19-2021, 04:35 PM   #29
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

We see the price quoted on this post as "6500 and still need flywheel pressure plate, Etc" ?

Typical customer's engine rebuild from us for complete engine with pressure plate / flywheel; ready to go back in is from $6200-6500 including balancing and cracks repaired.

The tipping point is cost of "New" engine, parts plus an addition to what you still need to source.

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Old 11-19-2021, 04:41 PM   #30
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

IMO, the cost to build any Burtz block is influenced by where you are. Over here, it is not easy to find the bearing shells (inserts) because none of the cars they came out of were ever sold here new. No Chevs, Buicks, Olds etc have been sold here since 1948 at least and apart from a few Asian assembled small cars, no cars wearing any GM badge will ever be sold here again.
I was only able to get a set of bearings for my Burtz engine because of the help of a very obliging forum member who lives in the US. He sourced them for me and sent them on. Dealing direct with the US suppliers is a real hassle. Some of them won't deal over seas (to us, they are the ones over seas!) and getting a reply is like pulling teeth from others. Not worth it.
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Old 11-19-2021, 05:16 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
IMO, the cost to build any Burtz block is influenced by where you are. Over here, it is not easy to find the bearing shells (inserts) because none of the cars they came out of were ever sold here new. No Chevs, Buicks, Olds etc have been sold here since 1948 at least and apart from a few Asian assembled small cars, no cars wearing any GM badge will ever be sold here again.
I was only able to get a set of bearings for my Burtz engine because of the help of a very obliging forum member who lives in the US. He sourced them for me and sent them on. Dealing direct with the US suppliers is a real hassle. Some of them won't deal over seas (to us, they are the ones over seas!) and getting a reply is like pulling teeth from others. Not worth it.
Iím guessing there are more than a few members on here that would buy the bearings and ship them to you. I shipped several ďAĒ parts to Australia and New Zealand. I will admit that freight charges were ridiculousÖ..usually more than the price I charged for the parts.
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Old 11-19-2021, 06:52 PM   #32
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Iím guessing there are more than a few members on here that would buy the bearings and ship them to you. I shipped several ďAĒ parts to Australia and New Zealand. I will admit that freight charges were ridiculousÖ..usually more than the price I charged for the parts.
You are exactly correct. We get stung big time on freight - so much so that buying from the US is often not an option. As a rule of thumb, I double the $US price for what it will cost me by the time I get it.
Pity our own manufacturing capability has been destroyed by the actions of ours and many other Governments around the world. I'm not sure whether the US signed on to this but I wouldn't be surprised.
https://www.unido.org/sites/default/...6.3.1975_0.PDF
On behalf of the others you have helped, I thank you. I am OK for now but it's good to know that such help is available.
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Old 11-19-2021, 07:23 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
IMO, the cost to build any Burtz block is influenced by where you are. Over here, it is not easy to find the bearing shells (inserts) because none of the cars they came out of were ever sold here new. No Chevs, Buicks, Olds etc have been sold here since 1948 at least and apart from a few Asian assembled small cars, no cars wearing any GM badge will ever be sold here again.
I was only able to get a set of bearings for my Burtz engine because of the help of a very obliging forum member who lives in the US. He sourced them for me and sent them on. Dealing direct with the US suppliers is a real hassle. Some of them won't deal over seas (to us, they are the ones over seas!) and getting a reply is like pulling teeth from others. Not worth it.
NO SMALL BLOCK CHEVIES!!! How did you get so lucky.
Just Kidding. I'm curious tho. What do the Hot Rodders use for engines?? I know a few guys are running Y-Block Fords.
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Old 11-19-2021, 07:55 PM   #34
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Synchro909,

Have you tried to buy the bearing inserts from Precision Intíl Pty Ltd W.A. Osborne Park 1300 364 350 in Australia?

They are the distributor for King bearings in Australia, and the basic part number is CR 624, and sets have a basic part number starting with CR 803.

Check out this catalog page: http://www.king-catalog.com/Catalog/Engine/20050956
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Old 11-19-2021, 08:49 PM   #35
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Synchro909,

Have you tried to buy the bearing inserts from Precision Int’l Pty Ltd W.A. Osborne Park 1300 364 350 in Australia?

They are the distributor for King bearings in Australia, and the basic part number is CR 624, and sets have a basic part number starting with CR 803.

Check out this catalog page: http://www.king-catalog.com/Catalog/Engine/20050956
Terry, No, I did not try them. They didn't turn up on any search I did, probably because I was looking for an Australian supplier. It's not an issue now as I have the bearings. BTW, As I have progressed through this build, I have become more and more impressed with what yo have done. Thank you.
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Old 11-19-2021, 09:03 PM   #36
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NO SMALL BLOCK CHEVIES!!! How did you get so lucky.
Just Kidding. I'm curious tho. What do the Hot Rodders use for engines?? I know a few guys are running Y-Block Fords.
Y, Not being a hot rodder wanting to insert a different engine, I don't know what they use - could be anything. That said, there are those who say that my Model A is a hot rod even though it has the original motor.
From what I can see, regulations relating to what modifications can be made to a car are very much more stringent here. For example, with our Model As, if the engine is more than 25% more powerful than the original, the car has to be assessed by an automotive engineer and passed as complying with the regs. Such a car is considered a new build and so must comply with modern requirements like windscreen washers, two (at least) speed wipers, seat belts, collapsible steering column and brake tests that a Model A could not hope to pass with standard wheels and there are restrictions on what wheels can be substituted, even if we could get them. I have never seen a 16" wheel here other than ones recently imported from the US, for example. Try fitting a retractable lap/sash seat belt to an open car!
Many of the cars on your roads would be allowed here without upgrades. I have a friend who has been looking for a 1933 or 34 Ford. He says that sellers over there can't understand when they say their car has this or that motor in it (other than the original) and it is an instant deal breaker.
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Old 11-19-2021, 09:50 PM   #37
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Bob Bidonde I had put this together prices from Brattons book!
I would think there are a couple other things hat have to be considered: Does the block have to be cleaned up (filing/grinding)? Also another consideration is who will assemble the engine yourself/builder?

Hope it helps even a little more!

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Old 11-19-2021, 10:16 PM   #38
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Quite frankly, a Burtz engine would be a bargain based on what Iíve invested in this one! 60HP at the rear wheels.
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Old 11-20-2021, 02:30 AM   #39
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Arnold, I just got 5 sets from the king agent here no drama.
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Old 11-20-2021, 08:12 AM   #40
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Bob, I sent an email...
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Old 11-20-2021, 08:25 AM   #41
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

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Quite frankly, a Burtz engine would be a bargain based on what Iíve invested in this one! 60HP at the rear wheels.
What kind of air cleaner is that? John
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Old 11-20-2021, 09:19 AM   #42
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

It’s a Redline adapter on a Weber 32/36 with a repro Edmunds air cleaner
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Old 11-21-2021, 10:14 AM   #43
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Wow! There is a lot of passion about the Burtz engine. Frankly, I would have one in a heart beat, but my piggy bank and repair window cannot afford one at this time. Luckily. I have my 45B Coupe to use while my 190A is laid up for a replacement engine.

My expectation is that many of the rebuilders will offer the Burtz engine in a complete short block, long block and ready to run. I think the price of a Burtz long block is going to be in the $6500 to $7500 range.
Terry Burtz, I applaud your engineering skill and your tenacity getting the Burtz engine into the market.
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Old 11-21-2021, 11:42 AM   #44
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Bob,

You should buy a block even if you can’t finish it for a while. The cost will be going up after this run. You can also buy the other peripheral parts as you have the money. That way it will be less painful on the the wallet.

That’s what I’m doing and my wife won’t freak out when she sees a big bill all at once! She’ll probably just say take it out of your 403b.

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Old 11-21-2021, 05:15 PM   #45
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Hello, as a retired tool and die maker, I also appreciate the effort to build a complete new engine for a car that has been out of production for 90 plus years.Most people don’t realize the amount of machines and tooling to build even a simple container for deodorant let alone a multiple piece engine.Don’t think Mr Burtz will get rich on this considering the amount of work and labor investment he must have. Thanks again for bringing this project to life .
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:00 AM   #46
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Personally, I hope that Mr. Burtz does get very rich from his efforts in helping out this hobby.

I can not imagine what he has had to do to get to this point with the engine. Must have had a few sleepless nights.
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Old 11-22-2021, 04:30 PM   #47
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Personally, I hope that Mr. Burtz does get very rich from his efforts in helping out this hobby.

I can not imagine what he has had to do to get to this point with the engine. Must have had a few sleepless nights.
I agree with this 110%
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:32 PM   #48
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Great information and conversation here about running a Burtz engine...thank you to all for your postings...gives me much to think about for my car....
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Old 11-23-2021, 07:01 AM   #49
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

To extract the most out of a Burtz block with the five main crank and oil pressure you'll need an over head valve head tho.
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Old 11-23-2021, 10:21 AM   #50
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

I have a friend in San Jose, California with a 28 Cheby head for sale. If interested send me a PM. I have no iron in this fire. My friend is not on the Barn. He is 80 and trying to unload some Model A parts.
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Old 11-23-2021, 01:14 PM   #51
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

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To extract the most out of a Burtz block with the five main crank and oil pressure you'll need an over head valve head tho.
It depends on your application and intended usage of the vehicle.
Bumping a Model A up to 200 hp is achievable, making it stay together and safe is another. (the rest of the car)

The Burtz motor would be perfectly acceptable as a side valve version and more reliable than a 90 year old version.

To each their own, just be happy you have the option.

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Old 11-23-2021, 07:37 PM   #52
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I agree with this 110%
As do I and he offered it at a reasonable cost. We need more in the hobby like him. Wayne
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Old 11-29-2021, 12:32 AM   #53
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

If you have a recently rebuilt engine that has failed or want to make a change and save money building the "New Engine", your valve train, camshaft, timing gears, and all attaching parts can be reused if they are in good condition.

As a minimum, you will have to buy standard-size pistons with thin rings, a gasket set, front and rear crankshaft seals, and 12 bearing inserts.

In addition to the minimum, I would add head studs and nuts.

By reusing old parts that are in good condition, the additional cost for new parts to build an engine should be less than $300.

We will be displaying the "New Engine Kit", "New 30-pound Flywheel", and "New Camshaft" at the Modesto A's swapmeet in Turlock, CA on January 29 and 30, 2022, and I will be there to answer questions.

Our swapmeet space is in building E-2 and across the aisle from the snack bar.

We will be taking orders for the "New Engine Kits", "New 30 pound Flywheel", "New .340 inch lift Camshaft", and the "New Cylinder Head".

At the Turlock swapmeet, we will be offering discounts on all of our parts.
The "New Engine Kit" will be $3750 instead of $3950.
The "New 30-pound Flywheel" will be $325 instead of $350.
The "New Camshaft" will be $345 instead of $375.
The "New Head" will be $345 instead of $375.

The discount on the "New Engine Kit" is $200 which will help to pay for the minimal parts required.

Nobody can predict the future and our prices may increase because of inflation, the higher cost of container shipping, the increased cost of energy in the USA, and the cost of manufacturing in China due to government restrictions.

This post is not political and I ask you to not make political comments.

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Old 12-08-2021, 08:05 PM   #54
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Will the new Burtz engine drive the cost DOWN for an overhaul on an original engine?
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Old 12-08-2021, 09:50 PM   #55
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Will the new Burtz engine drive the cost DOWN for an overhaul on an original engine?
IF you ever had to overhaul a Burtz engine, I fully expect they would be cheaper to rebuild. Everything would be the same - rebore, pistons, regrind the crankshaft, rings, cam gears, cam shaft etc but the bearings would be cheaper. Just buy a set if inserts with no need for pouring Babbitt bearings and line boring them.
From what I have heard, it sounds unlikely anyone would be able to wear one of these beauties out in a single lifetime. I'm going to have a good go at it though.
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Old 12-09-2021, 09:14 AM   #56
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Thanks Terry for your response. It is what I am looking for. In the case of my broken Victoria, I have already made a commitment for an engine in "drop-in" condition wherein I do not need to salvage anything from the broken engine.

As for the future, as my piggy bank recovers from the holidays, I am considering a purchase of a Burtz Engine Kit for use in my Coupe banger project.
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:40 AM   #57
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Do what I did, find someone removing a built up B block with no issues that is making room for his Burtz... Fraction of the cost of having one built... But that's my opinion... I have 3.5k wrapped up in a built B block, pushing almost 100HP at flywheel... There are deals to be found for sure...

I do agree the cost of the Burtz ready to run should be between 6 and 7k... If you hop it up majorly then push that cost up... way up...

Thanks for Having me here...
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Old 12-10-2021, 01:14 PM   #58
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Do what I did, find someone removing a built up B block with no issues that is making room for his Burtz... Fraction of the cost of having one built... But that's my opinion... I have 3.5k wrapped up in a built B block, pushing almost 100HP at flywheel... There are deals to be found for sure...

I do agree the cost of the Burtz ready to run should be between 6 and 7k... If you hop it up majorly then push that cost up... way up...

Thanks for Having me here...
Big Kev,

Welcome to the Barn. Is that a Thomas Head? I’ve been thinking of getting one, primarily for the visual coolness factor of the fins, but I assume the fins help dissipate heat.

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Old 12-10-2021, 06:57 PM   #59
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To extract the most out of a Burtz block with the five main crank and oil pressure you'll need an over head valve head tho.
We don't need no stinkin' overhead valves.
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Old 12-11-2021, 12:20 AM   #60
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

There comes a time when many will be confronted with installing a Burtz engine or have a trailer queen that is just polished. My engine has been bored .100 over and the crankshaft has been ground .020 under. To buy a rebuilt engine I must supply a rebuildable engine in return. To try to repair mine I am faced with a crank that has had the nitride hardning ground off and the the cylinders sleeved. I will also would need to deal with the head studs and loose heli coils. I end up with an unreliable, short lived, engine. The Burtz engine is the way to go.
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Old 12-13-2021, 08:42 AM   #61
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Big Kev,

Welcome to the Barn. Is that a Thomas Head? Iíve been thinking of getting one, primarily for the visual coolness factor of the fins, but I assume the fins help dissipate heat.

David Serrano
Thanks for the Welcome Dave.

Yessir, sure is.. 7-1 Thomas... The pulling power on hills is down right stunning... Yes the cool factor of the fins is always some eye candy under the hood but yeah they dissipate some heat also..
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Old 12-13-2021, 08:54 AM   #62
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There comes a time when many will be confronted with installing a Burtz engine or have a trailer queen that is just polished. My engine has been bored .100 over and the crankshaft has been ground .020 under. To buy a rebuilt engine I must supply a rebuildable engine in return. To try to repair mine I am faced with a crank that has had the nitride hardning ground off and the the cylinders sleeved. I will also would need to deal with the head studs and loose heli coils. I end up with an unreliable, short lived, engine. The Burtz engine is the way to go.
Rick,

There are many engines with sleeves in them that run long life spans without issues... The crank you can buy a repop crank with counter balancing and will be a vast improvement. The motors can be saved, and many will choose to save their motors due to keeping the vintage tin together with the vintage steel, But I do agree with you...

There will be a point where people will cross that bridge of ditching the babbit motor and installing brand new, with the serviceability of the A platform, A new block less prone to cracks and fatigue isnt a bad idea... In 100 years they will be still driving A's hopefully.

The Burtz block vs the normal rebuild isn't too far off money wise, and like many probably are doing, they are building a spare block while they drive their car till the day the motor is needed to replace a failing block, or just doing it for a huge upgrade in power or just dependability.

I see both sides of the coin for sure... But End of the day... Its your money, spend it how you want to spend it... I find it more fun myself personally to run old motors that have history... How many motors and cars were made into tanks in WW2? ALOT... I find it a pleasure to play with motors that survived the steel drives and all the other dumb regulations and programs to this day... But thats me.
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Old 12-14-2021, 06:45 PM   #63
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Big Kev
Thanks for your insight. I also see both sides of the coin and I agree it is a matter of personal choice, based on individual wants and needs. There isn't a binary right or wrong answer, we all love a very special car.
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Old 12-16-2021, 01:40 PM   #64
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Default Re: Cost of Running Burtz Engine

Crossing that bridge…I don’t think so. I bought a model A because I wanted a modelA.
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Old 12-18-2021, 01:50 PM   #65
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Me too!
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Old 12-18-2021, 03:45 PM   #66
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Driving cars in 100 years! Too bad we wonít be around to see that! Except for some of the stubborn ones?
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