No Bueno Shifto

[CA Victoria]

Working on a 35 trans, no prior history, it was disassembled, cleaned, & re assembled - This trans shift issue wasn’t apparent when I test run it on stands.
R & 1-2 up and down shift is great.
It will not shift into 3rd.
Removed tower & confirmed full movement, shifter & forks are good used. Full throw to all detents.
Shifted to 3rd with cover on, it won’t pull down as far as R. Took cover off while in 3rd and the cone doesn’t move forward far enough to engage the input shaft cone.
The cone and sleeve seemed ok when inspected.
I am stumped, I have over looked something with the assembly.
I cannot think of another option than to pull the transmission to troubleshoot the problem.........
I will borrow another early tower to compare movement.

Any thoughts from the trans gurus? .....

[deuce5wndw]

I ran into that problem and it turns out the shifter tower had the wrong shifting fork installed. It wouldn't let the hub go far enough to engage the high gear.

[CA Victoria]

Good thought. I will borrow an early tower to compare movement & forks
New comment, confirmed tower is ok. i am pretty sure the problem is in the synchro or related to it.

[cas3]

In the photo, it appears the trans is in 1st and 3rd. Is that how it looked when you pulled the cover off? If you slide the syncro toward the rear does it "click" into the neutral position centered on the hub ?

[CA Victoria]

No, the R-1 slider must have slid back. Checking

[petehoovie]

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"Working on a 35 trans, no prior history, it was disassembled, cleaned, & re assembled - This trans shift issue wasn’t apparent when I test run it on stands.
R & 1-2 up and down shift is great.
It will not shift into 3rd."

[Terry,OH]

The syncro hub has to move freely on the main shaft about 1/4" or so between 3 and 2. Did you reuse the old spring in the syncro?

[CA Victoria]

I used the old springs.
What are the symptoms of a broken spring?

The synchro moves freely fore and aft in between the cones with the detent holding on quite firmly.
I removed the tower again for inspection and re checking what I know to......
W/o explanation I was able to get the synchro to move into 3rd gear with a more firm tug on the shifter!?!?!
I bolted the tower back and will take it out this AM for a road test.

[ronn]

nice catchy title...........caught my eye for reading this thread and learned more then I knew...............

[Terry,OH]

If the springs become weak from long use, the steel balls change shape or the hub is worn, the outer sleeve of the hub will move much easier and may not move the inner hub, which has to slide since the syncro action is controlled by the inner hub. To check for proper movement, move the outer sleeve from N to 1 and then back then N to 2 and back The inner syncro inner hub should move with ease long before the syncro outer sleeve when trying to go into a gear.

[rotorwrench]

The 1932 through 35 sloped shift tower has a small 2nd/high shift fork unique to it. The sloped type tower also has a single detent built in. It could have some wear that might be worth looking at. The balls & springs in the synchro hub also act as detents so all of that has to be in good condition.

Those old cases can be updated with later gears but it has to have a custom made 2nd/high shift fork to work the blocker type synchronizer unless the shift tower is replaced with the vertical type tower and a 91A shift fork.

[CA Victoria]

Thanks for the input guys.
I Pulled the trans and found that the main drive shaft is an 81a-7017. It is a 16t Gear like the 48-7017 but the synchro teeth are a larger diameter for the later synchro.
Pretty sure I didn’t swap gears when I got this one so I’m not sure what the story was behind it. Circling back to the synchro balls - all 6 were in place. I have a metal sleeve (Campbell’s soup can) I use that goes over the synchro to load and capture the 6 balls.

A mistake and oversight on my part when I R&R the gears. The other spare main drive I had marked as a 48 is also an 81a. Oh well, I had a small engine oil leak I can fix it while the engine is out.
I just might make it to the RPM Nats, 6 days left to get it back together.

A Good lesson.....

[Bored&Stroked]

Glad you found it! Don't you have crap like that . . . the things we do to ourselves at times.

[CA Victoria]

As a novice the Transmission book by Mac Vanpelt has been invaluable in identifying parts and understanding the top-loader genealogy. I know enough to get into trouble and the reference helps a lot.

I missed the first few videos he published, these too are a must watch.

A tip for dis-assembly of the synchro is to put it in a zip lock bag. While holding the cone tap the sleeve out with a soft head hammer. I tried the box idea to capture the balls and there are still balls & springs hiding in my shop that I have not found.

[Will Kimble]

Hey Tim,


The 48-7017 & 81A-7017 main drive gears are both 16T but they do NOT interchange - even if the synchro sleeve slips on. The cones are different, 81A is much taller and designed to work with the loose brass synchro rings. The 48-style has a narrower cone and is designed to work with the early synchro hub.



At a glance it appears that you have the correct parts for a '35 transmission. It is important that the early synchro sleeve matches the cluster (48 to 48 or B to B).



Are you sure you used the correct springs in the synchro assembly? They look similar to later synchro springs but the early ones are much stronger. You should just barely be able to open the synchro with your bare hands and it should snap back strong.



It might be helpful to show us the underside of your shift tower. A '35 should have the 48 series forks which are MUCH better than those used in '32-34. The '32-34 forks have a sheet metal H bracket and are almost always worn out. If so it could be part of the problem. Same goes for the slot and nub on your shift lever.



Hope this helps a little.


Best regards,
Will Kimble

[CA Victoria]

Will et.al.
I will check the springs / tension, it felt ok but the mis-fit is that the synchro hub does not fit over the main drive shaft synchro teeth and do not engage. The later style hub does. It may be the hub but the physical OD is appx .035 larger than the hub I.D. I have a new shaft coming so I will know soon enough.

PS shift tower works correctly with full throw fore and aft., correct forks, snug fit, shifts nicely

[rotorwrench]

Mac's book is heavy on the later V8 transmissions but light on all the early transmissions. It's still a valuable reference for all the gear & shaft combos. Most folks steer toward the 91A & later sets since they are a better functioning parts group. Mac's book is invaluable for matching of parts that work properly together and especially the earlier parts that will work with the later ones.

[CA Victoria]

One of our Ford Barn friends who specialized in rebuilding EFV8 three speed transmissions supplied a NOS 48-7017 main drive gear.
I put Too-Mater back together yesterday but with rain today the test drive will wait until it dries out.

PS
The culprit for my oil leak wasn’t the-rear main but the oil galley plug behind the oil pump drive gear cover plate that was sitting to high. It held the cover up and did not seal.

Thanks y’all