1952-59 ford social group @ hamb-bone

[KULTULZ]

How in the world do you get in? I got in once and cannot figure how to do it again.

Are they checking at the door now ...

CORNFUSED AND AGITATED IN W(BY GOD)V ...

[down-the-road]

You have to check in with the three-headed monster first!
Now let's se if I can get these steps in the right order and maybe add a couple of pictures to go with them.

1. Click on the tab with three heads to get a list.
2. Click on the words SOCIAL FORUMS to get another list.
3. Click on the word Brands to get the list of forums identified by vehicle brand.
4. Click on the words 1952-59 Ford Social Group. If you are already a member, you see the posts in that group.
5. You need to join the group if you see (You have insufficient privileges to post here.) Click on the words Social Forum Tools to get another list.
6. Click on the words JOIN SOCIAL FORUM. Now you are a member and can see posts in the forum.

Just close the window when you are done with the posts. You can drop your membership in the the group if you go back to Social Forum Tools and click the words LEAVE SOCIAL FORUM.

Now let's see if I can get the pictures in here in the correct order. It is tricky at first to get into the HAMB social forum, but it is easier to post pictures over there. Both places have a bunch of great guys and great information!

[down-the-road]

CORNFUSED! HEE-HAW! Start here..

[KULTULZ]

DAMN!


Prison release was easier ...

[KULTULZ]

THANX GUYS!


What I am trying to find is retro-fitting self adjusters on pre- 1958 FORD.

In 1958 FORD supposedly installed self-adjusters on high trim FORD - MERC (1957) - LINC.

No mention in either the 49/59 MPC . First years used shows 1961.

[54vicky]

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self adjusters is a pretty vague.kreskin might think brakes but mere mortals?

[KULTULZ]

... got in ...

Waited for lunch and they left a window open ...

[JeffB2]

What it all comes down to on the self adjusters is to find a later model Ford that uses the same brake shoes then you use the same hardware and adjuster kits. The first one we did in the Group was the 1952-54 Fords they use the same shoes as 1967-72 Mustangs so that made it easy. One little trick is to use the Rock Auto catalog online when you click on a brake shoe part number you get a pop up showing other cars that use the same shoes self adjusters became more standard about 1962 and later.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by JeffB2

What it all comes down to on the self adjusters is to find a later model Ford that uses the same brake shoes then you use the same hardware and adjuster kits. The first one we did in the Group was the 1952-54 Fords they use the same shoes as 1967-72 Mustangs so that made it easy.

One little trick is to use the Rock Auto catalog online when you click on a brake shoe part number you get a pop up showing other cars that use the same shoes self adjusters became more standard about 1962 and later.

I was wondering where you were. Remember we had a discussion here previously about the conversion. You said one would either modify the retaining pin (2027 in Ill) or Modify the spring retainer (2028) by narrowing its' thickness I believe.

And now you are saying to find a later shoe(s) with later webbing that will accept the self-adjusting components. Makes sense to me. But if the FORD has 11" shoes and the MUST has 10" shoes, will the cable be long enough for the earlier shoe?

I just noticed you say your social group has a FAQ which I failed to notice. Is there more info there?

FORD actually began install in 1958, but there is nothing in the MPC about it or the SHOP MANUAL(S). MERC has the info.

Anywho, I began to think (not common) that a front disc swap needs the rear self-adjusters to keep the drums in proper adjustment so as not to over work the disc.

THANX!

[frnkeore]

This is a page from my '58 Edsel Service manual.

[JeffB2]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I was wondering where you were. Remember we had a discussion here previously about the conversion. You said one would either modify the retaining pin (2027 in Ill) or Modify the spring retainer (2028) by narrowing its' thickness I believe.

And now you are saying to find a later shoe(s) with later webbing that will accept the self-adjusting components. Makes sense to me. But if the FORD has 11" shoes and the MUST has 10" shoes, will the cable be long enough for the earlier shoe?

I just noticed you say your social group has a FAQ which I failed to notice. Is there more info there?

FORD actually began install "in 1958, but there is nothing in the MPC about it or the SHOP MANUAL(S). MERC has the info.

Anywho, I began to think (not common) that a front disc swap needs the rear self-adjusters to keep the drums in proper adjustment so as not to over work the disc.

THANX!

You match the aduster and hardware kits to the shoes 10" to 10" and 11 " to " 11 taking also the width into account as well. This has become an issue with most 1955-59 Fords as finding drums and shoes for these has become a nightmare for many check out the link here: https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...rake+shoe,1688 Notice that a lot of the cars in the list are pre-60's that did not use self adjusters.The 1957-59 Ford 9" rear ends have been in demand for swaps for years in 50's Fords and have become pricey so in some cases swapping out the backing plates for a later Ford that you can get drums and shoes and hardware more readily might be in order.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by JeffB2

You match the aduster and hardware kits to the shoes 10" to 10" and 11 " to " 11 taking also the width into account as well.

This has become an issue with most 1955-59 Fords as finding drums and shoes for these has become a nightmare for many check out the link here: https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...rake+shoe,1688

Notice that a lot of the cars in the list are pre-60's that did not use self adjusters

Hey, THANX for that info JeffB2COOL. I saw entries on your HAMB-BONE site suggesting using later brake assemblies and like the reference you gave to period correct dual reservoir master cylinders as to rebuilding a correct take-off as opposed to buying an off-shore look-a-like.

THANX again as I think I am about to speed on retro-fitting.

Now one has to worry about finding a correct/undamaged set of later shoes that can be re-lined.

[paul2748]

The TBirds used 11 inch shoes. There is a write up in the Early Bird magazine on self adjusting conversion with part numbers. I have a copy if your interested. Will send snail mail

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by paul2748

The TBirds used 11 inch shoes. There is a write up in the Early Bird magazine on self adjusting conversion with part numbers. I have a copy if your interested. Will send snail mail

That would be most helpful and appreciated.

What I am trying to ascertain is how to do a disc swap correctly using only FORD parts (NO GM - Off-Shore).

I will PM you my address as I still have a few outstanding warrants floating and they are starting to get close again ...

[51504bat]

I don't know if nascardave is still active on the board or not but he would be a go to guy about info on front discs with stock parts. A very helpful guy. Don't know if he'll see this thread or not. You might try a PM also. He has been a world of help on my '54 Ranch Wagon project.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by frnkeore

This is a page from my '58 Edsel Service manual.

And I forgot to THANK YOU for that ...

If it wasn't for bad manners, the boy would have none at all ...

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 51504bat

I don't know if nascardave is still active on the board or not but he would be a go to guy about info on front discs with stock parts. A very helpful guy. Don't know if he'll see this thread or not. You might try a PM also.

He has been a world of help on my '54 Ranch Wagon project.

Which DISC SWAP SYSTEM did you decide to go with on your '54?

[paul2748]

What car are you planning to put discs on. One source for disc brake conversion is Engineered Components Inc (ECI).. They make disc brake conversions for a lot of different applications. Been around a long time. I have one on their set up for bigger brakes on a Mustang II front end. No problems in 25 years.

[KULTULZ]

What I am trying to do Paul is cleanly retrofit the 1965/67 KH 4-PISTON CALIPER design to early FORD/BIRD using all FORD parts.

Just wondering which way the poster went with his.

[paul2748]

If your working on an early TBird (55-57) then CASCO and Hill's have a conversion kit (they both look the same in their respective catalogs). Just got one from Hills and its looks good, haven't started to install yet. It uses Mustang rotors and the 4 piston calipers. Seems to have very good directions.. Kit contains dual master cylinder, heat guard for the master, brake lines, seals, spacers, bearings and proportioning valve with bracket.. Kind of expensive though, around 1,400 bucks.

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

What I am trying to do Paul is cleanly retrofit the 1965/67 KH 4-PISTON CALIPER design to early FORD/BIRD using all FORD parts.

Just wondering which way the poster went with his.

[KULTULZ]

What I want is a direct take-off to retrofit a 55/57 FORD/BIRD.

These kits as offered have fabricated adapters to fit the calipers and a MC of unknown origin and usually is accompanied by the ever popular DIALING-FOR-BRAKE-ANTI BIAS VALVE.

Some have cheese cutter rotors. You even have one source stating that it comes with different size rear wheel cylinders to eliminate the need for a PPV.

A lot of stuff is being reproduced in CHINA and I don't want to go there.

I want to mount a direct factory take-off (1965-1967 KH SYSTEM - FORD *FAIRLANE-MUST* -MERC-LINC) including spindle and correct valving.

Finding a complete donor will be the problem.

Are the calipers in your kit rebuilt KH (FORD CASTING ID) or new castings?

[paul2748]

What you want probably does not exist

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by paul2748

What you want probably does not exist

What I want did and does exist. FORD-GM-MOPAR-AMC used the system. FORD replaced theirs with sliding calipers due to cost (1968).

Do you have any idea of what I am describing?

The idea of hanging CHI-COM repro on a street driven car does not impress me.

[5851a]

I had the 4 piston KH brakes on a 67 Galaxie. The calipers were massive, had special steel wheels to clear them and they were 15 inch. Also had a 67 Cyclone with the 4 piston KH, they were not as large, and a regular 14-inch rim fit. Don't know if they would swap over to Thunderbird. A person can rebuild calipers but is it even possible to buy a brake rotor made in the USA?

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

What I want is a direct take-off to retrofit a 55/57 FORD/BIRD.

...

I can almost remember some of the early front disc brake conversions for '55/'57 T-Birds were done by swapping in the spindles and front brake hardware from mid-70's Granada / Monarch cars.
But the 'how-to' has faded from memory, or I'm completely mistaken.

[KULTULZ]

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Originally Posted by 5851a

I had the 4 piston KH brakes on a 67 Galaxie. The calipers were massive, had special steel wheels to clear them and they were 15 inch. Also had a 67 Cyclone with the 4 piston KH, they were not as large, and a regular 14-inch rim fit.

Don't know if they would swap over to Thunderbird. A person can rebuild calipers but is it even possible to buy a brake rotor made in the USA?

You know what I am talking about ...

12" BIRD ROTOR on MUST -

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

I can almost remember some of the early front disc brake conversions for '55/'57 T-Birds were done by swapping in the spindles and front brake hardware from mid-70's Granada / Monarch cars.

But the 'how-to' has faded from memory, or I'm completely mistaken.

Nah, you're OK.

The GRANADA SWAP was very popular but IMO left a lot to be desired. Parts are hard to come by now.

Most of your BIRD kits now are based on the KH SYSTEM.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 5851a

A person can rebuild calipers but is it even possible to buy a brake rotor made in the USA?

Well yes, but you would have to ask the seller directly where the part is sourced from and if he is mistaken or (GOD forbid) he tells a falsehood, what the return policy is before buying.

CENTRIC (STOP-TECH) is a class act IMO. All is manufactured in CHINA but it is better in quality than FORD and/or MOTORCRAFT. I just completely re-did my ESCAPE and I was amazed at the quality.

Now on a swap like being discussed here, I would try to find NOS or take-off calipers/MC/valving as I don't want some re-design.

CENTRIC offers the rotor hat only and you would keep the original hubs, so no worry there.

[paul2748]

The 75-80 Granada, Monarch and the Lincoln Versaille were the brakes people used to convert to discs. The disc is a single pad caliper design. These were used on the 54-56 sedans and the 55-57 Birds. Pretty easy swap but the Mercury and Granada spindles had to have the lower ball joint hole reamed because it was too small for the ball joint. Supposedly, the Versaille spindle didn't need this. I put a Granada set up on my 54. Good brakes - also put in a 9 inch rear with the later Tbird/truck brakes (wider). These cars are hard to find now a days.

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

I can almost remember some of the early front disc brake conversions for '55/'57 T-Birds were done by swapping in the spindles and front brake hardware from mid-70's Granada / Monarch cars.
But the 'how-to' has faded from memory, or I'm completely mistaken.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

You know what I am talking about ...

12" BIRD ROTOR on MUST -

AHA!

I see we are returning to THE OLDE DISAPPEARING ILL SYNDROME ...

PHOTO REINSERTED (NOTE- This example was overkill (IMO) as it was intended for racing but shows how it was done in the day)

I would consider this setup if one was not interested in finding old KH take-of parts -

- https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Br...emno=140-13653

(I would use their foundation brake and adapter kit but be careful of valving).

Or the KH SWAP that allows the retention of the OEM SPINDLE (HILL'S is one vendor).