Head bolts

[daveymc29]

So what is the opinion of the group here, do we use anti seize on the head studs and if so, how much and where? It took me only moments to loosen all the studs in a friends engine which we were pulling the head to renew a blown head gasket. I found no anti seize anywhere. One short bolt had a nut that looked like it was pulled down cross threaded with an impact wrench. Other than that one, all the bolts came out with just fingers, after the nuts were removed. Really made it easy to remove the head. I had backed all the nuts off a bit, maybe three turns and then we started the engine, well made it fire a cylinder or two and then it was all loose. Best 509 Gasket with no sealer had blown, I think due to lack of adequate re-torquing the head after assembly. There was also one helicoill that was standing proud of the block surface probably 10 to 15 thousandths. That has been corrected and the head is with a reputable machinist for checking and resurface if necessary. Supposed to be a 5.2 head. Block is now clean and ready for assembly. Any suggestions?

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by daveymc29

Best 509 Gasket

Would that be a Best Gasket 509C (Copper) or 509G (Graphtite)?

[RawhideKid]

I have enjoyed the Best 509C and highly recommend it for a stock bore motor. I personally think the Felpro has gone too big bore and narrowed critical areas for a stock bore motor.

[Synchro909]

The question is "Do I use anti seize and where?".
I always use it on the head studs, manifold studs and exhaust flange - anywhere that gets hot. Some use just oil, some go for fancier stuff with Nickel or Copper in them. I use one with Copper and Molybdenum. I think an anti seize from any reputable maker will be fine. I also think the reason the head you are working on came off so easily without anti seize did so because it hadn't been on there long (confirmed by your suspicion that the problem was caused by a failure to re torque it after fitting. Use it on the fine threads where the nuts go. Not so much on the coarse thread in the block but that won't cause any harm either. Applying a wipe of it to the studs themselves (take care not to get it on the face of the gasket) can only make life easier when the head has to come off next time. We've all read about the battle some people have to remove a stuck head. That is usually caused by corrosion of the studs in the holes through the head.
That's just what I do. Others will no doubt vary.

[Dollar Bill]

Anti seize is cheap insurance - Use it anywhere you are joining dissimilar metals and any threaded fastener subject to heat/water/rust.

So, block/stud threads and stud shoulders.

[Fullraceflathead]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Today's world use today's Technology.
I would use Anti seize on anything that's getting torqued.
Never torque with dry threads. Use a light oil at the very least to get accurate torque results.

[Mikeinnj]

From the FelPro website...."Stay away from anti-seize especially on head bolt use. Anti-seize is for use on bolts that see high temperature and corrosion conditions so they will come apart later without breaking the fastener." "The silver/copper/similar anti-seize are what you don't want to use on head fasteners."

[Kurt in NJ]

You are checking the head to see if it is flat--- the other side of the gasket has to be on a flat block too--- that needs to be checked also

[Brian in Wheeling]

of course, you know there are no head bolts, only studs and nuts. Maybe bolts could be used,but I don't know if those could work.
Brian W.

[daveymc29]

Studs it is of course. Careless wording. Got the head back today and had a long chat with the machinist. Head is well made, his measurements from the straight edge to the spark plug bosses were only a thousand or so apart from each other. Same for depth of cut above the cylinders, So he then became suspicious of the cleaning method that had been used to knock the carbon off last time. Where the gasket sealing rings meet the head had been tapered into the cylinder about .007 all around and he speculates the last mechanic used a rotary sanding disc to get rid of the carbon buildup. So those sealing rings were pinched hard on the side away from the combustion chamber but had .007 extra clearance at the edge where the combustion takes place. Not what Martha Stewart recommends, I'm guessing. So now I'm playing with several gaskets trying to find one where when installed doesn't protrude into the combustion Chamber. Can one remove material from the seal ring to keep it out of the combustion chamber? I have never done that, but then I never had that problem before. This is a 5.2 head as sold by several of the vendors. I'm waiting on a Best 509 Gasket to see if it may have better fitment. The combustion chamber has a slight heart shape to it around the valves and the gaskets I have are all straight on the outside of the valves. Toward the intake/ exhaust side of the block. Any more thoughts?

[Dollar Bill]

"Chamber. Can one remove material from the seal ring to keep it out of the combustion chamber?"

Not recommended as most fire rings have a very thin cross section.

[Brian in Wheeling]

If you want to use the head, have it milled flat, then use. no worries.

[Big hammer]

If the gasket fits the block, not hang over the bore, if the fire ring doesn't fit the head, then I agree with Brian! I would never alter a head gasket! A plus to milling the head, raising the compression ratio!

[H. L. Chauvin]

From past experiences:

One (1) past, formerly installed Helicoil found in the block indicates a most "typical", past horrible broken stud experience where the last engine head installer most probably realized what had happened.

When installing the head you removed, (if no anti-seize discovered), my guess is he was intelligent enough to grease the hell out of the block threads and head bolt threads which sealed the porous metal pores of the steel bolts and cast iron block thus impeding the formation of ferric oxide, (rust).

"Today", with anti-Seize materials available, providing Anti-Seize on "all" Model A bolts in an 80+ year old engine block is about as important as a surgeon "today" washing and scrubbing his hands prior surgery to prevent serious infection.

Over the past 20 years, with the 85 million Model A Forum sad stories of broken stud removal, one (1) thing is certain ..... many vintage mechanics never knew about Anti-Seize ...... and also, many surgeons never knew about preventing infection during surgery .... our surgeons already learned ..... however, after 85 million broken studs, appears many Model A owners never learned this preventative method yet.

[daveymc29]

Best 509 G gasket fits the Snyder head and has no hang over anywhere. I tested on a section of the old gasket and you are correct in stating that the fire ring is very thin. On the silicone gasket there is not enough meat to clear all the overhang though the packaging says the gasket is made for the Snyder head. Head is true flat, Block is what it is, was supposedly decked less than 1000 miles back and has never been overheated, so since the new gasket fits we are going back together and With luck and Truing the head we're back on the road. Thanks for all the info and not getting on a rant because you answered this question 34 years ago. I didn't own a model A then, that ran anyway.

[Kurt in NJ]

Most vintage mechanics never took the studs out ---they even had plates to put over them to bore the cylinders

If a "whizzer mechanic" attacked the head you better look at the block close too, I have had late model Mercedes engines that the gasket surfaces were damaged to the point that the engine got replaced by wizzer cleaning

[daveymc29]

We this didn't quite turn out as expected by me. We put the car together and it ran sluggish. Shorted out number one, not a lot of difference, shorted out the others, obvious difference. Did another compression check, 30, 70,90 and 90 PSI front to back. This is a rebuild with 1000 miles on it by a so. ca. builder. So I guess it will have to go there for another check up. Thanks for all the help and suggestions, we followed all good practice for the average shade tree mechanic. Now it's the big boys turn. The block was back once for a repair in number two, perhaps number one is jealous.

[Brian in Wheeling]

valves.

[JDupuis]

Put some oil in that low cylinder. If the compression comes up, it's rings. If no change, it's valves. Jeff

[Mikeinnj]

Originally Posted by daveymc29

So what is the opinion of the group here, do we use anti seize on the head studs and if so, how much and where? It took me only moments to loosen all the studs in a friends engine which we were pulling the head to renew a blown head gasket. I found no anti seize anywhere. One short bolt had a nut that looked like it was pulled down cross threaded with an impact wrench. Other than that one, all the bolts came out with just fingers, after the nuts were removed. Really made it easy to remove the head. I had backed all the nuts off a bit, maybe three turns and then we started the engine, well made it fire a cylinder or two and then it was all loose. Best 509 Gasket with no sealer had blown, I think due to lack of adequate re-torquing the head after assembly. There was also one helicoill that was standing proud of the block surface probably 10 to 15 thousandths. That has been corrected and the head is with a reputable machinist for checking and resurface if necessary. Supposed to be a 5.2 head. Block is now clean and ready for assembly. Any suggestions?

DAVEY,
The Model A Ford uses head studs and nuts to fasten the head.
Studs it is of course. Careless wording......
P.S. Where did you buy that "5.2" cylinder head ?
All the Model A vendors sell a 5.5 cast iron head , not a 5.2