02-07-2016, 01:20 PM | #1 |
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Head questions
I found water in my oil, and had been getting hydrocarbons in my radiator. I just removed the head on my '30 Town Sedan.
1) Can anyone tell me for sure if this is a stock head? 2) If I decide to remove some material for higher compression, how much is TOO MUCH before valve clearance becomes an issue? Chuck
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02-07-2016, 01:22 PM | #2 |
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Re: Head questions
20160206_141802.jpgOOPS! here is a photo.
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02-07-2016, 04:57 PM | #3 |
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Re: Head questions
Yes it is stock. I think you would have to remove too just to get a significant increase in compression.
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02-07-2016, 08:41 PM | #4 | |
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Re: Head questions
Quote:
It peps it up pretty good. I have this setup on my 30 coupe. On my 28 with aftermarket pistons that don't protrude I was able to machine it until the counterbore was completely gone, about .125. Bill |
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02-07-2016, 09:19 PM | #5 |
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Re: Head questions
be careful of the fit of a head gasket in the valve area if you start cutting. Look closely at the valve area of the head. The sides of the chamber are concave for less valve shrouding. As you mill the head, you are widening out the head opening in the valve area. Lay your gasket on there and see how much you can widen out before the fire ring begins to hang into the chamber. I have seen several expensive heads ruined because this mistake was made
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02-07-2016, 09:27 PM | #6 |
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Re: Head questions
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02-07-2016, 09:41 PM | #7 |
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Re: Head questions
Milling doesn't add much compression, but it can change the quench/turbulence and you will notice that.
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02-07-2016, 10:45 PM | #8 |
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Re: Head questions
Might check for cracks?buy high comp head you'll be happy you did!
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02-08-2016, 12:24 AM | #9 |
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Re: Head questions
Thank you all for the good input. So far, I'm just doing a quick fix and had to ask about cutting the head down, while it still can remain simple and cheap. When I have time (& $$$) to pull the engine and see what the mains and the crank look like, I'll decide what to do with the head at that time. It will depend on what I am doing down under. I believe I still have old babbit, and if turn out to be as worn as my stock valve guides, I'll be doing some more serious work, and probably get a 5.5 head at that time.
Meanwhile, I'm also doing new stock valves (and lapping), springs and guides, adjustment, and throwing her back together. I promised a young couple to be their chauffeur at their wedding in March. (So with a full time job, I'm pushing it!)
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02-08-2016, 01:06 AM | #10 |
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Re: Head questions
Ok, I tried looking up "quench/turbulence", and it looks complicated. So HOW will I notice that effect? Is it positive or negative from a driving standpoint? Changes in advance/retard? Changes in mixture? Faster burn or slower? You piqued my interest.
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02-08-2016, 08:09 AM | #11 |
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Re: Head questions
If you are going to pay some one to mill the head, why not put that money towards a good 5.5 or 6 head. I have milled a stock head to the max. It did help but not as good as a 5.5 head.
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02-08-2016, 11:47 AM | #12 |
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Re: Head questions
Look at your picture in #2 and notice that the small coolant hole under the water pump is right next to the edge of the combustion chamber. Milling this head could be a waste of money. I'd just buy the 5.5 head now, so you save money in the long run.
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02-08-2016, 01:10 PM | #13 |
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Re: Head questions
Have you checked the flatness of the deck of the engine or checked the engine for any cracks ? Look closely for cracks in the area between the valve seats and the cylinders.
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02-08-2016, 09:47 PM | #14 |
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Re: Head questions
Just read this. That water hole IS very close. I took my head in to the shop straight after work to head shop to just clean it up, blast it and check for level. I did NOT tell them to mill it down; just enough to level it.
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02-08-2016, 09:56 PM | #15 |
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Re: Head questions
Not sure if deck is flat. I didn't pull the studs yet. Isn't it unusual for the block to warp?
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02-08-2016, 11:35 PM | #16 | |
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Re: Head questions
Quote:
How does the head gasket line up with that small hole? I'm wondering why it's so close to the edge? |
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02-09-2016, 01:42 AM | #17 | |
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Re: Head questions
Quote:
I just pulled my oil pan for the first time since I owned it (I've only put 700 miles on her). The engine is still in the car and I wasn't planning on rebuilding the whole shebang yet. I will start another post regarding doing the rings while I'm at it. I'm afraid to look at the babbit. It may fall to pieces. Then I AM stuck with a full rebuild, and I'll miss this wedding for a friend. Oh well. It is what it is! Can I rebuild it in IN THE CAR?
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02-09-2016, 01:45 AM | #18 |
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Re: Head questions
Dang, the pic again!20160206_141816.jpg
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02-09-2016, 03:55 AM | #19 | |
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Re: Head questions
Quote:
What is the bore? It might be time to sleeve them back to standard. It isn't too bad to pull the engine, and for the work you want to do that's the way to go. Rering or rebuild is much easier and better with the engine out of the car. You might get lucky and have good babbit. |
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02-09-2016, 04:11 PM | #20 |
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Re: Head questions
Since you're under the gun timewise, just get the head fixed and back on. Threading and plugging that hole may well fix the whole problem anyway. Since it was running OK except for losing water it will surely last just fine through its wedding duties.
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02-10-2016, 12:24 AM | #21 | |
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Re: Head questions
Quote:
I will do a full rebuild, and I think I have time. I will put on the stock head though (after I work on that water hole) and see how it goes. I will rebuild; I can replace the head later. See, I DO listen to all you Barners. I just need to "talk it out".
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02-10-2016, 12:28 AM | #22 | |
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Re: Head questions
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02-10-2016, 12:59 AM | #23 | |
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Re: Head questions
Quote:
Thanx again for the advice. See? I DO listen to you guys. Then I proceed my own way
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02-10-2016, 03:59 AM | #24 |
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Re: Head questions
The shotgun comment was because the picture made the cylinders look rough, but it was most likely a very low resolution picture.
Stock bore is 3.875" and the picture shows the coolant hole close to the edge also, as though the cylinder has been bored quite a bit. |
02-10-2016, 10:16 AM | #25 |
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Re: Head questions
Sure nuff now I can see it's a head rather than looking down the cylinder. I also wouldn't be spending money on that head, but buy the 5.5 head instead. You could tap, plug and redrill the hole for no money, but if the head needs to be planed then just put the money towards the new 5.5 head.
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02-10-2016, 10:44 AM | #26 |
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Re: Head questions
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02-10-2016, 02:23 PM | #27 | |
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Re: Head questions
Quote:
So will a bore to 4.00 require different pistons or same stock pistons w different rings or stock size rings?
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02-10-2016, 02:34 PM | #28 |
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Re: Head questions
You need to get pistons that match the bore. If you bore it .125, you need +.125 pistons and rings.
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02-11-2016, 07:06 AM | #29 |
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Re: Head questions
H.L.M., Brattons 2015 catalog has .125 oversize pistons (Pg.40, #8310) for $ 89.95. Cylinder sleeves, std bore (3.875) are $30.75 each, This will require new 3.875 pistons. Rings are 39.65 a set. Also, you will need wrist pin bushings (4) at $1.85 each. I hope this helps you to figure your costs. I'm not recommending this, but you may be able to merely replace the rings into your old pistons. I would have to mike the bores to see if it's feasible.
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02-11-2016, 08:31 AM | #30 | |
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Re: Head questions
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Last edited by modelAtony; 02-11-2016 at 08:37 AM. |
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02-11-2016, 02:22 PM | #31 | |
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Re: Head questions
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10-10-2018, 02:21 AM | #32 |
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Re: Head questions
I read on this forum sometime ago that a Snyders 5.5 head could be raised to 6.1 by planing a certain amount off it. I cannot find the original post. Can anyone advise what this figure is?
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10-16-2018, 05:23 PM | #33 |
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Re: Head questions
Gavin,
Your question has been bugging me for a while. I looked up some old printer-outs from the ...'Barn. I'll give you most of what is on a 12/28/2004 message: posted by Dick Wyckoff, " I am running a Snyders 5.5? milled 20 thous- My builder Bill Garland of Sparta GA said taking 20 off the head make it about 5.9 He started doing that years ago and has no complaints- I can tell you it is peppier than the 5.5" Lou Earle Hope this helps and I might do this to a 5.5 head I have too. Bob- |
10-17-2018, 01:11 AM | #34 |
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Re: Head questions
Thanks for your research Bob. In a current thread titled "High Compression heads" two people have mentioned planing a 5.5 head, one by 50 thou and another by 100 thou. It would seem to me the amount one can plane will be dependant on whether or not the Pistons protrude above the block. I have a friend with a 5.5 head that needs 30 thou removed to straighten it and his piston protrude so Given your info I will proceed with caution.
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10-18-2018, 07:45 AM | #35 |
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Re: Head questions
I really don't like that head H.L.M is working with! I'd get another one, preferably a "C" head (uncracked) or a "B" head (Police head) You will be shedding a questionable , possibly junk, head for one with a built in higher compression Ratio. However, that being said, I have a head that i cut .040 and got a noticable difference from it, not huge, but it was better.
I would not be in a hurry to sleeve a block that doesn't really need it. Sleeved cylinders go back to the original bore size (3.875) and you lose whatever effect you were getting from the larger bore. Well it's all in the past now. I don't think that H.L.M. is waiting for our answer (From 2015?) All we can do is hope that it will benefit someone else. Terry |
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