Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-30-2013, 06:01 PM   #1
sarettejo
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
Default Need help troubleshooting/timing

I have a 1929 Model A -

I was teaching son to drive the car, and when he pulled out to get going again from a stop sign, the engine lost all power (although kept running for a while, barely), and would only just barely run at the same low rpm no matter how much the accelerator pedal was depressed. I had to pull the car home and have been working on it and learning about it through youtube and the internet.

More to consider - It appeared that there was no spark, so I pulled some info off the internet and ended up replacing the coil, condenser, and finally the points (which after all was said and done I believe to be the culprit). The coil and condenser did not need to be replace, but I did it anyway to have backup parts.

I now have spark all the way to the spark plug! But the car will still not run! I believe I am having trouble timing the engine:
- the timing pin trick doesn't seem to work, actually, when I hold the pin in to feel the dimple, the pin will depress to its hub when I turn the engine, and that location seemed to be inappropriate for TDC since the #1 piston was not at the top of its stroke (I checked it as follows) --> so I removed the #1 spark plug and used a section of a coat hanger to feel the piston coming up in the compression cycle, and I then timed the spark to coincide with the piston at maximum stroke elevation. Is this where the plug needs to spark?

After timing the engine this way, the car will still not fire over. I have even sprayed starter fluid (ether I guess) into the carburetor to see if that would get the engine to go.

Any Ideas? Thanks ....
sarettejo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 06:06 PM   #2
James Rogers
Senior Member
 
James Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Asheville,NC
Posts: 3,098
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

Remember, that piston will come to the top twice for every firing stroke.
James Rogers is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 06-30-2013, 06:07 PM   #3
sarettejo
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

Huh, two compression strokes?
sarettejo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 06:09 PM   #4
sarettejo
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

So, do I time it on the stroke after I feel the compression (I use my thumb over the hole)?
sarettejo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 04:02 AM   #5
James Rogers
Senior Member
 
James Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Asheville,NC
Posts: 3,098
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarettejo View Post
Huh, two compression strokes?
One exhaust and one compression.
James Rogers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 09:41 PM   #6
sarettejo
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

Thanks for all the help! I installed an aluminum timing gear, set the timing per the book, and the car started first crank of the starter. It now runs better than it ever did!
sarettejo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 06:52 PM   #7
700rpm
Senior Member
 
700rpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,260
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

Forget the coat hanger. Time it by the book. If you use the search engine at the top of this page and look for "timing" you'll find all the info you need. This is assuming it's stock.
__________________
Ray Horton, Beaver Chapter, MAFCA, Portland, OR


As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.
700rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 07:03 PM   #8
sarettejo
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

Quote:
Originally Posted by 700rpm View Post
Forget the coat hanger. Time it by the book. If you use the search engine at the top of this page and look for "timing" you'll find all the info you need. This is assuming it's stock.
It is completely stock. I tried the timing by the book method, but finding the dimple with the timing pin seems to be impossible. I feel for the dimple while hand cranking but then the timing pin indents to the hub, and this doesn't seem to be the right spot as the #1 piston (front piston) is no where near the top of the stroke. Thanks for your response.
John
sarettejo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 07:08 PM   #9
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Upstate NY and western Florida
Posts: 5,121
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

No, not 2 compression strokes. One compression and one exhaust. Hold a finger over/in the hole and turn the engine until you start to feel the compression, then just turn the engine enough to allow the pin to drop in the timing gear hole. That should be TDC on compression stroke [if the timing gear didn't strip a tooth or two]. Then set the timing. If that doesn't work, then pull the timing gear side cover and check all the teeth.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 07:10 PM   #10
700rpm
Senior Member
 
700rpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,260
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

John I'm not sure what indents to the hub means, but you can use a stubby Philips screwdriver instead of the pin to locate TDC; they're more sensitive with some of the gears that have a shallow indent.
__________________
Ray Horton, Beaver Chapter, MAFCA, Portland, OR


As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.
700rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 08:59 PM   #11
sarettejo
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

Thanks for the tips. I notice that the timing pin indents every quarter turn of the rotor. Is this normal? Also, the rotor doesn't revolve smoothly, it jumps between quarter turns, is this normal? I'll get into the garage right now and try Patrick L.'s tip.
sarettejo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 09:04 PM   #12
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,410
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

I'd check the timing gear like Patrick mentioned.

Bob
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 09:45 PM   #13
700rpm
Senior Member
 
700rpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,260
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

The timing pin should indent only once per revolution, at #1 TDC. The rotor (engine) will move more smoothly if you remove your plugs. If you remove the side cover you can take a look at where the indent(indents, if you have more than you should) occur on the gear.
__________________
Ray Horton, Beaver Chapter, MAFCA, Portland, OR


As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.
700rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 11:02 PM   #14
sarettejo
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

The good new is..."you guys rock". The bad new is as much as I didn't want it to be the timing gear, I removed the cover and the nylon gear is as "loose as a goose", and the inside ring part of the gear (if this makes sense) is all chewed up. So, I guess I have to figure out how to replace this gear and get it on right! Any major tips?

Hey, this is just like my favorite saying: "Go slowly for a more harmonious outcome." —Old Sioux saying

"When you are really in a hurry, take your time!"
sarettejo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 12:16 AM   #15
H. L. Chauvin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,179
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

If you never want your timing gear to go out again where you need a tow, call Mr. Dan Mc Eachern at (510) 769-7524 for a metal timing gear.

Timing gear teeth are in some ways similar human teeth -- some really last a long time & some just don't last too long.

Then both human teeth & timing gear teeth usually break at the most inopportune time -- like the day before Christmas Eve, the day before New Years Eave, or some the day before some other holiday when both the dentist & the parts vendors are not in.
H. L. Chauvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 01:04 AM   #16
Mike V. Florida
Senior Member
 
Mike V. Florida's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Florida
Posts: 13,983
Send a message via AIM to Mike V. Florida
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

Go here;
http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm
__________________
What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II
Mike V. Florida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 01:54 AM   #17
sarettejo
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida View Post
I did go to this site earlier and it helped a great deal. What I need now is a resource/internet site that will describe how I replace my broken timing gear!

Thanks,

John
sarettejo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 02:30 AM   #18
Mike V. Florida
Senior Member
 
Mike V. Florida's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Florida
Posts: 13,983
Send a message via AIM to Mike V. Florida
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarettejo View Post
I did go to this site earlier and it helped a great deal. What I need now is a resource/internet site that will describe how I replace my broken timing gear!

Thanks,

John
YEA, you're already here!

http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103605
__________________
What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II
Mike V. Florida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 11:19 PM   #19
700rpm
Senior Member
 
700rpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,260
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

Thanks for the update.
__________________
Ray Horton, Beaver Chapter, MAFCA, Portland, OR


As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.
700rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 05:34 AM   #20
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Upstate NY and western Florida
Posts: 5,121
Default Re: Need help troubleshooting/timing

Good. Its nice to hear the the outcome.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:03 AM.