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Old 01-07-2019, 11:27 PM   #1
Steve Plucker
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Default Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

OK...I have set up my tank in the proper way..have all connections correct...using 12 gauge copper wire for connecting anoids...anoids are 1-!/2 inch galvanized steel pipe...water plus sodium carbonate...charger set at
12V and 2Amp charge...Plugged in...Not working...what went wrong?

Could it be that I am using galvanized steel pipe and not regular steel pipe?

Thanks.

Pluck
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:08 AM   #2
31 Woody
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

I just used regular steel—a piece of rebar, and it works well. It does take a while though, did you give it overnight to see if there were results? If no result I would change to a piece of scrap steel vs galvanized.
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:14 AM   #3
Steve Plucker
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

I am letting it go overnight...will see what is happening in the morning but I think you are right...it is the galvanized pipe that is the problem.

Thanks 31 Woody

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Old 01-08-2019, 02:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

The 12 volts/2 amp charger for one! You need more then 2 amps. You are going to need more then 2 amps to get things cooking at least to start. When I tried it mine was in the 8-10 amp range to start and as time went by it dropped down some. You could go higher on the amps then what I was using too.

I used rebar or just steel, not sure how the galvanize pipe will react. Warm water and maybe a higher ratio of washing soda might help too. Also there has been some talk about doing cast iron, and as I recall, you do not want to leave in the tank any longer then needed if at all.
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:00 AM   #5
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Plucker View Post
OK...I have set up my tank in the proper way..have all connections correct...using 12 gauge copper wire for connecting anoids...anoids are 1-!/2 inch galvanized steel pipe...water plus sodium carbonate...charger set at
12V and 2Amp charge...Plugged in...Not working...what went wrong?

Could it be that I am using galvanized steel pipe and not regular steel pipe?

Thanks.

Pluck
Might that be "anodes"
Not familiar with using sodium carbonate in this process but I guess it's like using NaOH. Try moving the elctrodes closer together and imersing more of the lectrodes in the solution. As has been said, 2 amps is not likely enough.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:03 AM   #6
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

Sodium Carbonate is not as conductive as Sodium Hydroxide, therefore you need more amps. 2 amps is not enough current.
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:16 AM   #7
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

Switch to non galvanized anode (re rod, or carbon. may not help but takes one variable out of the equation) and up the amps. somewhere the amp per sq inch needed may be listed.
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:23 AM   #8
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

I've been "preparing" for a setup. I've heard to use A&H washing soda. Bare steel rods (rebar) for sure and 6V. But this is all hear-say and not my hands on. But this came from my buddy who does it successfully but not often. He uses a nylon/plastic drum.

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Old 01-08-2019, 10:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

Is volts directly connected with amps in this? For example, If 12 volts at 2 amps is insufficient, is 24 volts at 2 amps or 36 volts at 2 amps better??
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:48 AM   #10
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

I used 12 volt batteries, rebar, and washing soda. At first I tried two batteries in series each with its' own charger. The charger was intended to keep the two batteries fully charged. having two batteries in series gave me 24 volts which I figured would be extra push to make things work fast. As it turned out the extra voltage did nothing to speed up the process. 6 volt batteries seemed to give the same results. As an aside I had a block in this process for about 10 months and it didn't seem to bother the cast iron at all. I have now run that block in my 2-door for a couple of years now with no problem. The water passage ways were nice and clean. Jack
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:51 AM   #11
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

Amps is the important variable. only enough voltage to overcome the resistance in the electrolyte is needed. more volts will speed the reaction to a point but to much voltage will release hydrogen from the solution but won't speed up the derusting any further.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:27 AM   #12
Dennis Pereira
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

This is one of my shade tree set ups . I use arm and hammer washing soda
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:41 AM   #13
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

Vince has some information on this. http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/elec...cderusting.htm
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

The galvanized coating actually insulates the solution from the iron in the anode, which is what you need to attract the iron oxide in the rust to the anode.
Keep the copper wires and clamps out of the solution or they will disappear, leaving hot wires that are not attached to anything in danger of contacting each other.
I used washing soda and it works fine. It cleaned up a flathead block in three weeks.
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Old 01-08-2019, 03:56 PM   #15
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

In college my roommate and I "borrowed" a trash can and used an old laptop charger that put out 4.5A at 16V to derust various Jeep parts. Worked like a charm.

2A might not be enough but definitely switch out the galvanized pipe first.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:24 PM   #16
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

Some metals will put out poisoning gases! Do some searching on the net. I tried the process and I didn't like the results. I used rebar for anode. I found Evaporust worked better for me, after soaking I clean off the residue with water then I dunk the parts in clean Evaporust and let the parts air dry, which keeps the parts rust free until I can paint the parts.
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

Agre with other posters, get rid of the galvanized, keep the rods close to panel but not touching. And make sure you don't reverse polarity or you'll end up with nice clea de- rusted rebar and trashed parts
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:28 PM   #18
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

polarity is important, as I recall check out this for a nice setup


https://www.instructables.com/id/Ele...val-aka-Magic/
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

Probably the galvanizing.

The classic "galvanic series." See chart below.


I suspect you're generating a "counter EMF" (I.e. forming a battery) between the iron and galvanization.

In marine use, a zinc sacrificial anode is usually used to preserve bronze underwater parts. Technically, iron could serve the same purpose, supposing you had bronze keys and washers for the propeller.

I pretty much follow https://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp.

I have used straight iron anything as the positive lead and attach the item to be de-rusted to the negative lead. I use a 6 amp Sears Craftsman battery charger from the 1970s (no polarity detection) and run 6 amps by distance or strength of electrolyte. For electroyte I use a dilute solution of LYE rather than washing soda as lye is cheap and easily found as Roebic Drain Crystals - and in the concentration required to get the electrolysis going you can put your hands into it and cuts in your hand don't even smart. The purpose of the lye or washing soda is simply to provide loose ions that can be moved around by the electric current. Some have used vinegar (acidic) for the same purpose and achieve a similar result - but acid is difficult to deal with at the end and prior to re-coating.

Some use a stainless positive - not recommended as the chemical bath makes bad actors which when you dump are released into the environment. https://antique-engines.com/stainles...electrodes.htm

Fordgarage.com (Vince Falter) uses graphite welding electrodes as his positive - which make sense considering the chart above.

After electrolysis, I wire brush the parts to remove any ferric oxide - black - which may get in the way of recoating. Then I dip or wash in a phosphate cleaner - "Kleen Strip Prep & Etch" is cheap and available at the big box stores. This turns the black a sort of "grey" which can be painted over.

I have a Worthington Duplex Steam Pump which has been treated in this method. Three years ongoing the pump is still a rich grey waiting for paint - yet another project.

In fact the black (Ferric Oxide) can be painted over directly - but when converted using a phosphate dip it makes it take even longer before reversion to a red oxide occurs.

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Old 01-13-2019, 11:33 AM   #20
Steve Plucker
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Default Re: Removing rust by electrolis...Problem...

Yes guys...it was the galvinized pipe...replaced wirh solid steel rods...works like a champ!

Pluck
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