transmission question

[Bob from Northport]

Several of the suppliers sell a seal kit that bolts onto the back of the transmission to stop leaks from the transmission shafts. Is it possible to change and install this seal kit without removing the driveshaft attachments on the back of the trans.??

[Y-Blockhead]

If this is the kit you are referring to, then yes https://www.brattons.com/transmissio...-seal-set.html

Ensure the area is squeaky clean and use a good sealer. I like Permatex "Ultra Black" http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-82180...silicon+sealer

I installed this kit ~18 months ago and it has not leaked a drop of oil... from there anyway.

[Tom Endy]

The seal kit you are referring to will bolt up to the back of the transmission by removing the bolt that holds the cross piece that secures the cluster shaft and idler shaft from rotating. It is a casting that is essentially a dam that fits over the end of both shafts and dams up any leak coming from around either or both shafts. It is somebody's very good idea.

The device can be installed very easily without having to remove the transmission. When the time comes that the transmission has to be removed for overhaul the device can be discarded in favor of a new cluster shaft and idler shaft with O-rings installed at the end of each shaft.

A Model A repair shop I do business with keeps then in stock and installs them on every Model A that comes in leaking oil around the two shafts.

Tom Endy

[Tom Wesenberg]

When you install the new shafts with O-rings, don't you need to bevel the holes for the shafts so the sharp edge doesn't shear the O-rings?

[SeaSlugs]

I didn't, just lubed em u and eased them in.

[Bob Bidonde]

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I have put sealed bearings, o'rings and the casting in the last transmission I restored, and the transmission has not leaked a drop of oil. I took advantage of the sealing and now use modern synthetic SAE 140 hypoid gear oil in the transmission.

[barkleydave]

I ordered the kit but did not fit my 29

[Don/WI]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

When you install the new shafts with O-rings, don't you need to bevel the holes for the shafts so the sharp edge doesn't shear the O-rings?

You are right Tom. I learned this the hard way. Ruined two o-rings before I realized what was happening. I beveled (chamfered) the holes and lubed the o-rings and no more ruined o-rings. I also used the kit for extra protection against leakeage. I have installed many of these kits since that time and no longer use the o-rings unless I'm rebuilding a transmission. Don/WI

[MAG]

Originally Posted by barkleydave

I ordered the kit but did not fit my 29

I have installed several of these parts and found that on some of the Reverse Gear Shafts stock must be removed on the outer end. The shafts protrude, from the notch for the locking strip, approximately twice the distance as other shafts. Removing that extra stock (about 1/8" ) will allow the part to fit.

[Marshall V. Daut]

"Barkleydave" -
'Not doubting your frustrating experience with a non-fitting rear transmission seal kit, but it seems odd that the seal couldn't be installed on your '29. Had the back of your case been somehow altered, possibly a crack welded that was not ground smooth? That would definitely interfere with the new seal's fit. Or too much grease/paint/road grime build-up?
Also, you probably noticed that the seal cover has one corner that is slanted. This slanted corner has to go in the upper right orientation, meaning towards the U-joint, on top. If you tried to install the cover with the sloping corner on the bottom, it won't fit because the standard non-sloping corner comes into contact with the U-joint lower clamshell. I assume you tried the cover both ways?
You also have to put the bolt in the cover when you place the cover over the shafts. If you try to put the bolt in after the cover is glued to the transmission case, you can't get it in, as I recall. An ear on the lower U-joint clamshell blocks the bolt's pathway. It's been a while since I installed one of these seal kits, but I know that I made mistakes initially by trying to put the cover in place in the wrong orientation and by neglecting to place the bolt inside the cover before placing it on the back of the transmission. I learn more by making mistakes than by doing things right the first time.
Could either of these situations have been the problem in your case? Otherwise, I have never heard of this excellent kit not fitting a Model A transmission case. Something ain't kosher here.
By the way, my suggestions assume that the transmission is still in the chassis and not on an engine stand. To ensure that the seal is not installed improperly, it's a good idea to check it against the lower U-joint clam shell while the engine/transmission are still on the stand. Yes, you can put the seal in upside down like this if the lower clamshell is not in place. You'll discover the error when you go to mount the clamshell and it is obstructed by the non-sloping corner of the seal cover. I always thought it would be a good idea if the manufacturer sloped both opposite corners so that the seal installation would become idiot-proof - if there is such a thing. Or maybe the part is being made that way now? 'Dunno. 'Haven't installed this kit in a few years.
Marshall

[bunnyc]

I too ordered this kit, knowing in advance that it would not fit my '29 Tudor. It won't fit because the flat bar holding the shafts is thicker on my transmission. The kit will work, unmodified, if the bar flat bar is 1/8" thick.

I intend to take it to a machinist and have the cover piece milled out to the thickness of my flat bar and try that. Might have to deepen the recess for the shaft also; haven't measured that.

It's on my list, just haven't gotten to it. Photo is of the kit with the 1/8" thick flat bar.

[SeaSlugs]

Should be noted when you do eventually get the fancy O ring shafts and you have a early 29 or 28 you must find the thinner flat bar or it wont fit in the groove... did not think of that when I put the new shafts in haha. Luckily a swapmeet had one for a buck with the bolt.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by bunnyc

I too ordered this kit, knowing in advance that it would not fit my '29 Tudor. It won't fit because the flat bar holding the shafts is thicker on my transmission. The kit will work, unmodified, if the bar flat bar is 1/8" thick.

I intend to take it to a machinist and have the cover piece milled out to the thickness of my flat bar and try that. Might have to deepen the recess for the shaft also; haven't measured that yet.

It's on my list, just haven't gotten to it yet. Photo is of the kit with the 1/8" thick flat bar.

That's what I'd do also. I wouldn't modify original Model A parts to fit aftermarket parts.

[rocket1]

I installed the o ringed shafts and leak kit,dry as A Bone (pun Intended)

[Sparky]

I just installed the kit last week. My car is supposedly a '29 but it had the thin retainer plate and short shafts, so maybe the original tranny was replaced with a '30 or '31 some time in its life.

The only problem I had was that I could not insert the longer mounting bolt that comes with the kit. It just would not tilt enough to get around the universal housing. The stock bolt seemed to have about four threads of engagement so I reused it. There's not much load on it.

[George Miller]

Work in building hyd cylinders and valves a good part of my working life. You can chamfer the case, or use a small ring compressor, or you can make a pice with a hole the size of the shaft. made for a slip fit. then put a long lead angle inside. other words make a tapper going from bigger than the OD of the O ring to the size of the shaft. then put the shaft through the sleeve then put the shaft in the transmission.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by George Miller

Work in building hyd cylinders and valves a good part of my working life. You can chamfer the case, or use a small ring compressor, or you can make a pice with a hole the size of the shaft. made for a slip fit. then put a long lead angle inside. other words make a tapper going from bigger than the OD of the O ring to the size of the shaft. then put the shaft through the sleeve then put the shaft in the transmission.

I thought about making the tapered guide, but since the cluster gear shaft should be installed from the front of the case, the guide would be inside the case, unless it was a two piece guide.

Wait a minute.........that can't work because the cluster gear is in the way. Inside the case chamfer and lube the O-ring to install.