The Ford Barn

catfishdog · 10-07-2014, 05:46 PM

Hello everyone, my name is Fernando and I am from Miami Florida, I am the proud owner of a 29 roadster hot rod and a bone stock 30 tudor A. I have in my garage a brand new Mitchells overdrive that I am thinking about dropping in the tudor. my question to everyone is should I consider having my motor rebuilt as a touring motor and if I should go that route should I remain babbited or go with insert bearings? I actually have 100s of questions, but being that is my first post I do not want be a leach. Thank you in advanced and looking forward to continue to visit this forum

pat in Santa Cruz · 10-07-2014, 09:39 PM

Welcome to Fordbarn. The Mitchell will be of more use if your engine produces some more torque. A high compression head will do that with the least amount of effort. Without knowing anything about your existing engine, I could not tell you if it needs a rebuild or not. A touring engine can be an improvement depending on who builds it. There are "touring engines" out there that are less effective than a good stock engine. Find your local club and you can experience what a good A engine is. I would put in the Mitchell and drive it. Then after a few miles you can assess whether or not you need to do more.

catfishdog · 10-07-2014, 09:53 PM

Thank you Pat. The engine seems to be ok, I need to pull the head and see for my self. I am going to reseal the engine for now as its leaking lots of oil from the main seal. I am looking at less Andrews vol one and can't find any information on whether I need to pull the motor to reseat that rope seal. I'll let you guys know how that Mitchell's work out. Or make it easy on me and go v8 and be done and sale my Mitchell's OD.

Joe K · 10-07-2014, 10:33 PM

In a stock Model A engine there is only a rope seal where the crank passes through the housing on the FRONT. The REAR has no seal except for a slinger ring and purposely tortuous passage along the crank.

Many Model As have problems with leaking out the rear seal. You'll see a drip hanging from the cotter pin or at the hole in the bottom of the flywheel housing if yours leaks a little (or a lot.)

Cause of the rear main leak is various: sometimes its just bearing wear, others have lost the tube at the rear main cap that directs drain oil back to the crankcase (although this is not proven always), others are missing the paper gasket between the block and the flywheel housing and oil leaks out the rear hole of the camshaft. Others have had the oil pan off to adjust the engine bearings - and it's a difficult area to seal and keep sealed on re-installation of the oil pan.

End play of a worn engine crank can contribute to oil pumping, as can incorrect slotting of the rear main babbit which assures proper oil return to the oil sump.

Sometimes just going to a heavier oil can slow down a leak. Some use 15W-40 diesel oil and it helps.

So it's hard to say exactly what you have until you get into this engine some more. Work on your clearances with plastigage - or use aluminum foil similarly to set your clearance by removing shims (or file the caps - but we won't mention that as many don't like the non-reversible damage to an engine component.)

Retrofit seals exist for the rear main on the Model A engine. Generally these are band-aid to other issues - and most users/retro-fitters remain unsatisfied unless the engine has been rebuilt specifically to take on the retrofit seal. Which rebuilding usually cures the original cause for leak anyway? Usually installation of rear crank seals involves machining off the slinger ring which is an integral part of the original crankshaft. This is a modification which is at best not reversible - so be sure this is what you want to do when you get there.

And good luck. Hopefully in Miami you have an air conditioned garage to work on the car.

Joe K

ctlikon0712 · 10-07-2014, 10:38 PM

Use the advanced search tab and check the model A forum and type in your question or search criteria and chances are, someone has asked your questions before. It could save you allot of time. Might also cause many more questions too. lol The rear seal leak has a couple possible causes.
Here is a quick search result before you tear things apart.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/search...archid=4445374

Mike V. Florida · 10-08-2014, 06:03 AM

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The first thing you need to determine is how are you going to drive it. On the weekends to the beach, or long and hard to the top of the state. Highway or back roads?

The occasional weekend trip a hundred miles of so a bone stock A will be find (read that as save your money for gas) If you plan to drive it on the highway (remember I95 and the turnpike the average speed is 70+) you will be killed in a stock A. You are from Florida so you know that turn signals are worthless so you can save some money there.

There is a MAFCA chapter in Miami.

Miami Model A's
751 Malaga Ave
Coral Gables, FL 33134
1st Thursday Noon Coral Reef Yacht Club
Tom Zannis
305-446-5032

catfishdog · 10-08-2014, 08:54 AM

Thank you Joe, great information.

Mike, appreciate your feedback. Would you know someone is south Florida who rebuilds these model a motors and knows how to adjust the 2 tooth steering boxes? And you are 100% right, there is no need for turn signals here. reason being is that Miami is the only city in the US where folks 100% obey by the rules of the road....... well they obey by the rules of the road from the country they are from and those countries have no rules.

Mike V. Florida · 10-08-2014, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catfishdog

Thank you Joe, great information.

Mike, appreciate your feedback. Would you know someone is south Florida who rebuilds these model a motors and knows how to adjust the 2 tooth steering boxes? And you are 100% right, there is no need for turn signals here. reason being is that Miami is the only city in the US where folks 100% obey by the rules of the road....... well they obey by the rules of the road from the country they are from and those countries have no rules.

If you do a search here in the site the instructions have been posted several times. I need to look up the contact information for the engine rebuild. The closest to us is in Jupiter.

10-07-2014, 05:46 PM	#1
catfishdog Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Miami Posts: 6	hello From Miami Hello everyone, my name is Fernando and I am from Miami Florida, I am the proud owner of a 29 roadster hot rod and a bone stock 30 tudor A. I have in my garage a brand new Mitchells overdrive that I am thinking about dropping in the tudor. my question to everyone is should I consider having my motor rebuilt as a touring motor and if I should go that route should I remain babbited or go with insert bearings? I actually have 100s of questions, but being that is my first post I do not want be a leach. Thank you in advanced and looking forward to continue to visit this forum

10-07-2014, 09:39 PM	#2
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: hello From Miami Welcome to Fordbarn. The Mitchell will be of more use if your engine produces some more torque. A high compression head will do that with the least amount of effort. Without knowing anything about your existing engine, I could not tell you if it needs a rebuild or not. A touring engine can be an improvement depending on who builds it. There are "touring engines" out there that are less effective than a good stock engine. Find your local club and you can experience what a good A engine is. I would put in the Mitchell and drive it. Then after a few miles you can assess whether or not you need to do more.

10-07-2014, 09:53 PM	#3
catfishdog Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Miami Posts: 6	Re: hello From Miami Thank you Pat. The engine seems to be ok, I need to pull the head and see for my self. I am going to reseal the engine for now as its leaking lots of oil from the main seal. I am looking at less Andrews vol one and can't find any information on whether I need to pull the motor to reseat that rope seal. I'll let you guys know how that Mitchell's work out. Or make it easy on me and go v8 and be done and sale my Mitchell's OD.

10-07-2014, 10:33 PM	#4
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: hello From Miami In a stock Model A engine there is only a rope seal where the crank passes through the housing on the FRONT. The REAR has no seal except for a slinger ring and purposely tortuous passage along the crank. Many Model As have problems with leaking out the rear seal. You'll see a drip hanging from the cotter pin or at the hole in the bottom of the flywheel housing if yours leaks a little (or a lot.) Cause of the rear main leak is various: sometimes its just bearing wear, others have lost the tube at the rear main cap that directs drain oil back to the crankcase (although this is not proven always), others are missing the paper gasket between the block and the flywheel housing and oil leaks out the rear hole of the camshaft. Others have had the oil pan off to adjust the engine bearings - and it's a difficult area to seal and keep sealed on re-installation of the oil pan. End play of a worn engine crank can contribute to oil pumping, as can incorrect slotting of the rear main babbit which assures proper oil return to the oil sump. Sometimes just going to a heavier oil can slow down a leak. Some use 15W-40 diesel oil and it helps. So it's hard to say exactly what you have until you get into this engine some more. Work on your clearances with plastigage - or use aluminum foil similarly to set your clearance by removing shims (or file the caps - but we won't mention that as many don't like the non-reversible damage to an engine component.) Retrofit seals exist for the rear main on the Model A engine. Generally these are band-aid to other issues - and most users/retro-fitters remain unsatisfied unless the engine has been rebuilt specifically to take on the retrofit seal. Which rebuilding usually cures the original cause for leak anyway? Usually installation of rear crank seals involves machining off the slinger ring which is an integral part of the original crankshaft. This is a modification which is at best not reversible - so be sure this is what you want to do when you get there. And good luck. Hopefully in Miami you have an air conditioned garage to work on the car. Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

10-07-2014, 10:38 PM	#5
ctlikon0712 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Cocoa, Florida Posts: 1,609	Re: hello From Miami Use the advanced search tab and check the model A forum and type in your question or search criteria and chances are, someone has asked your questions before. It could save you allot of time. Might also cause many more questions too. lol The rear seal leak has a couple possible causes. Here is a quick search result before you tear things apart. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/search...archid=4445374 __________________ Wanted: Simmons Super Power Head Craig Likon 1931 150B Last edited by ctlikon0712; 10-08-2014 at 04:54 AM.

10-08-2014, 06:03 AM	#6
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: hello From Miami Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The first thing you need to determine is how are you going to drive it. On the weekends to the beach, or long and hard to the top of the state. Highway or back roads? The occasional weekend trip a hundred miles of so a bone stock A will be find (read that as save your money for gas) If you plan to drive it on the highway (remember I95 and the turnpike the average speed is 70+) you will be killed in a stock A. You are from Florida so you know that turn signals are worthless so you can save some money there. There is a MAFCA chapter in Miami. Miami Model A's 751 Malaga Ave Coral Gables, FL 33134 1st Thursday Noon Coral Reef Yacht Club Tom Zannis 305-446-5032 __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

10-08-2014, 08:54 AM	#7
catfishdog Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Miami Posts: 6	Re: hello From Miami Thank you Joe, great information. Mike, appreciate your feedback. Would you know someone is south Florida who rebuilds these model a motors and knows how to adjust the 2 tooth steering boxes? And you are 100% right, there is no need for turn signals here. reason being is that Miami is the only city in the US where folks 100% obey by the rules of the road....... well they obey by the rules of the road from the country they are from and those countries have no rules.