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Old 10-06-2014, 09:01 PM   #1
Pinchy The Great
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Default Muffler flange repairable?

I just took off my muffler clamp and noticed part of the muffler flange broke off, as shown in attached image. I was about to replace my manifold seal when taking this off - maybe this was the source of the noise to begin with. I see a new muffler will cost me $155, which I can pick up locally.. I'm wondering if it's worth buying a new muffler setup, or if this is something worth repairing for much cheaper? I was thinking of taking it to a mechanic and seeing if they can weld/repair it, but that might end up costing more than I think. Or maybe some repair kits I can pick up at AutoZone might do the trick - then again, the last muffler I had before this had plenty of issues because of a bad flange and would fall off all the time, when I got this one it was problem free until now (about 10 years old)

Any advice from somebody who has dealt with this problem before?
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:11 PM   #2
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

Just replace it with NEW, Do away with the ploem.good luck
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:14 PM   #3
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

The same thing happened to a guy in our group the other day, except he lost about 70% of the flange and the muffler dropped to the road. It's an easy fix. Just take your muffler and manifold to a muffler shop and have them make a flange on a short piece of exhaust pipe the same size. Cut off a piece of the exhaust pipe and weld on the new part.
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

What Tom said:
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

One could cut it off just below the bend and re-form a new flair with a ball pein hammer and some skill

Or the muffler place could use their flare tool and re-make the flair.

A little shorter on the vertical shouldn't affect function. Might even change the responsive sympathetic dynamic frequency and prevent another break-off.

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Old 10-06-2014, 10:19 PM   #6
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

My first thought was the same as Joe's, but you have to make sure the pipe clears the motor mount.

I also find that many of the lower cost mufflers have the front bend too sharp, like 80* instead of 90*.
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:57 AM   #7
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

And I confess I did think about the heat on the underside of the floorboards - which a lot of people are wont to buy the aftermarket "heat shield" of various forms.

Still, for a "farmer fix" this one might work and work for a long time.

Heh. The man on the front of Mary Moline's book "Model A Miseries and Cures" seems to be contemplating this very repair - although he has his other arm tangled in the steering wheel.

Perhaps a clumsy mechanic?



Interesting that this book shows $5 on the cover - but Amazon gets a minimum of $14.99 for the book?

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Old 10-07-2014, 07:53 PM   #8
Pinchy The Great
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

Thanks for all the helpful advise. I did stop in a Meineke and showed them a picture of the flange and the response was that if it was a straight section of pipe the fix would be simple, the flange makes it difficult. I'll probably take it off and take in another mechanic for a 2nd opinion before I give up. Or even if I get a new muffler I'll try fixing this one as a backup when I have more time.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:01 PM   #9
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

duct tape it!
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:37 PM   #10
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

The one that broke in our club the other day is already fixed. Bob took it to the muffler shop and they flared a short piece of pipe, then expanded some of the straight part to fit over the old pipe and welded it. They did this for free. I don't know the name of the shop.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

Maybe some have good experience with Meineke - but I wouldn't let them fix my plastic sewer pipe.

You need to find a REAL exhaust pipe shop - not just a shop that sells part 24873543 because their computer says it fits your car.

A real shop will have a tube roller/expander that would put EXACTLY the right flare on what remains of that muffler. OR they will weld on a sleeve similar to below which incorporates the flare already made. OR they will weld on a clean tube cut off square and HAND HAMMER the flare using an appropriate half-mandrel.

In any case you're looking for someone with SKILL IN THE MECHANICAL ARTS - and not just a mouse pusher - or a wrench tightener.

Here's a typical flare sleeve. They're on Ebay, and Oreilly's Auto, but mostly sources from England where a flare fitting in the smaller sizes seems more common. (IMHO, the flare part is a little large - but could be cut back a bit with a grinder.)



Here is someone who is making a flare freehand - he's heated the pipe up to help in the shaping and is using the thick black pipe inside to help with the forming - but I have done it cold and freehand over a regular anvil with a ball pein hammer.



So go find a REAL muffler shop. For $20 he'll put a new flare end on that muffler pipe and be curious as heck about your Model A. You'll have a new friend for sure.

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Old 10-07-2014, 09:01 PM   #12
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

I had a bad experience with Midus and wouldn't go back. In 1971 when I got out of the Army I took my 1952 Studebaker Land Cruiser to Midus to have a tail pipe made and installed. No one sold a premade pipe, or I'd have done it myself. My appointment was for 9 AM and I didn't get in until 12 noon, so for 3 hours I stood there and watched them installing mufflers and pipes. There main tools were a big hammer and rosebud torch, because they never bent the pipes correctly. I had just installed a new exhaust pipe and muffler on my Studebaker, so the tail pipe should have been a snap for Midus. They torched off my new clamps and hanger so they could sell me their new parts. 10 miles away from their shop the tail pipe fell off on the road. I wired it up and continued on my way to South Dakota.
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Old 10-08-2014, 08:07 AM   #13
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

A common problem with reproduction muffler assemblies is that the fit of the flange to the exhaust manifold is poor. When forcing the joint together, high stresses are induced into the sheet metal flange, and bending stresses are induced into the exhaust manifold.

Here's an easy way to improve the fit of the muffler assembly-to-manifold joint:
1. Cutoff the vertical leg containing the flange from an unusable original exhaust manifold. Retain as much of the straight leg of the manifold as possible;
2. Using the flange as a forming dolly, reform the flange of the muffler assembly. Initially use Vise-grip pliers to rough form the sheet metal flange. Using light taps with a ball peen hammer, finish the flange so that when it is installed on the car, the clamp fully engages it;
3. Wire brush & paint your new tool with POR-15 or other epoxy paint;
4. Continue to use an internal pipe such as Bratton's 7030 and a liberal application of high temperature cement on the faying surfaces of the flange.

Since doing the above procedure, the muffler assembly-to-manifold connection in my Coupe has been trouble free for thousands of miles.
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:15 AM   #14
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

Be sure to use a new muffler bearing when you reinstall it.
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:25 AM   #15
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

Hi guys,

my last classic car rallye ended with increased noise from the same spot, in my case, the flange was not broken off, just deformed by previous attempts to seal it without a gasket. In my case some brass has been soldered into the conical area and then nicely polished and centered with a conical milling cutter, that avoids the need of any kind of sealant.

in your particular case the pipe looks pretty hardened, the carbon is gone and the metal behaves like glass. Any attempts to fix this, is a waste of time, nerves and money and you canīt trust. Get a new pipe and finish....

Best Greetings
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:49 AM   #16
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

I have written off both Midas and Minekee for antics described by other posters above.

I had mine fixed at a REAL muffler shop (see post #4 for pictures). First step was that they made the short piece, flange on one end, enlarged on the other end so it would slip over the existing pipe. I took them the muffler assembly and an exhaust manifold for them to fit up to.

Instructions from the shop were to take it home, cut the old flange off, "loose" assemble it on the car so as to get the slip fit and angles just right, bring it back and they would weld it. Cost $20. I put everything together without the inner sleeve the vendors sell, without any sealant, foil or gaskets. Hasn't leaked or come loose.
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Old 10-08-2014, 12:06 PM   #17
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde View Post
A common problem with reproduction muffler assemblies is that the fit of the flange to the exhaust manifold is poor. When forcing the joint together, high stresses are induced into the sheet metal flange, and bending stresses are induced into the exhaust manifold.

Here's an easy way to improve the fit of the muffler assembly-to-manifold joint:
1. Cutoff the vertical leg containing the flange from an unusable original exhaust manifold. Retain as much of the straight leg of the manifold as possible;
2. Using the flange as a forming dolly, reform the flange of the muffler assembly. Initially use Vise-grip pliers to rough form the sheet metal flange. Using light taps with a ball peen hammer, finish the flange so that when it is installed on the car, the clamp fully engages it;
3. Wire brush & paint your new tool with POR-15 or other epoxy paint;
4. Continue to use an internal pipe such as Bratton's 7030 and a liberal application of high temperature cement on the faying surfaces of the flange.

Since doing the above procedure, the muffler assembly-to-manifold connection in my Coupe has been trouble free for thousands of miles.
You are assuming everyone has an original, unusable, manifold.
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Old 10-08-2014, 01:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

Second what TomW said about Midas, in my case their parts would last about a year and a half... Have not gone back in 15 years...
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Old 10-08-2014, 02:37 PM   #19
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Be sure to use a new muffler bearing when you reinstall it.
The early Rover 2000 model sedans had an actual ball bearing in the muffler/ tailpipe hanger assembly. The motor was on very soft mounts for smoothness, allowing quite a bit of movement to the system

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Old 10-08-2014, 02:43 PM   #20
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Default Re: Muffler flange repairable?

Looks like a roller bearing??
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