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Old 05-18-2013, 12:43 PM   #1
fredski
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Default 2 broken head studs below head surface

broken about a bolt thread below . I read I can weld a washer and then a nut on washer In search forums . can this be done when broken below
a bit??

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Old 05-18-2013, 12:49 PM   #2
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

I would try using an EZ-out first. When you drill out the center of the broken stud, fill the hole with PB Blaster, and let it set for at least a day, then try the EZ-out. If EZ-out doesn't get it out, drill to next size, retap the threads, and install a heli-coil.

Good luck
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Old 05-18-2013, 01:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

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Originally Posted by fredski View Post
broken about a bolt thread below . I read I can weld a washer and then a nut on washer In search forums . can this be done when broken below
a bit??

fredski
Rock's suggestion above is the FINAL solution, but you may be able to weld a grade 8 bolt smaller in diameter.

Or expand the hole in a nut out a bit and weld it by putting the stinger down through the hole and building weld up on top of the fracture.

Sometimes just the heating up and cooling down will be enough to set things free.

I think Carla occasionally of this board mentioned that dodge.

You can use the head as your guide for drilling should you get to this. I do like heli-coil as the resulting bolt attachment is stronger than the parent metal.

And I DON'T like easy outs in any way shape or form. I think they're designed to give repair machinists work. I think I've made an easy out work for me ONCE.

Good luck with this. Definitely a job for a magnetic drill.

Joe K
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Last edited by Joe K; 05-18-2013 at 02:49 PM. Reason: Accuracy
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Old 05-18-2013, 01:53 PM   #4
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

Everyone has different abilities and therefore not to step on Rock's toes but personally I would NOT try the Easy-Out step as 9 times out of 10 you will find yourself in worse trouble unless you feel very confident. A broken Easy-Out (or Tap) is a real bear to get out. Yes, some have done it this way but you really need to be set up to do it where you can place the drill in a mill so you are drilling at the exact angle and in the center. When I do not use the welded washer method, I have left-hand drills that I use in my Bridgeport. If I am not successful after a few minutes of drilling, I resort to welding on a washer & nut.

My recommendation is for you to use the welded washer method too. Vince has a nice tutorial on his website that is worth reading as a confidence booster. Go to: http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/studremoval.htm

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Old 05-18-2013, 02:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

Better listen to Brent! Easy outs should be renamed "never get outs". If you break one, and you will, the only thing that will get that broken piece of high tempered steel out is a solid carbide bit, and if you break one of those in it you will have to find an EDM to have all that burned out. Want I should tell you how I know, or will you just take my word for it?
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:06 PM   #6
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

I must have missed something here. Why not finish removing the head, soak the broken studs at the block with Kroil and use 2 small pipe wrenches to turn them out? Maybe a little heat also. If that fails then weld a nut and use an impact wrench. But, I would NOT use an easy-out.
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:11 PM   #7
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

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I must have missed something here. Why not finish removing the head, soak the broken studs at the block with Kroil and use 2 small pipe wrenches to turn them out? Maybe a little heat also. If that fails then weld a nut and use an impact wrench. But, I would NOT use an easy-out.

Probably the difference in nomenclature but the way I interpret "head surface" is the part where the head mates to the block. If your interpretation is correct, he does have a much easier path to travel!!

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Old 05-18-2013, 02:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

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Originally Posted by green30coupe View Post
I must have missed something here. Why not finish removing the head, soak the broken studs at the block with Kroil and use 2 small pipe wrenches to turn them out? Maybe a little heat also. If that fails then weld a nut and use an impact wrench. But, I would NOT use an easy-out.
I don't think he actually means it broke off at the head but rather the block. The stud doesn't break in the middle.
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

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Probably the difference in nomenclature but the way I interpret "head surface" is the part where the head mates to the block. If your interpretation is correct, he does have a much easier path to travel!!

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I would think he would have described it as "block surface" if the head was off.
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

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I would think he would have described it as "block surface" if the head was off.
Well, he also said about a thread down below the surface. I guess that could mean threads on the stud but again, I just didn't interpret it that way. The odds say there's a 50/50 chance one of us is right!!

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Old 05-18-2013, 02:17 PM   #11
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

You will have bad luck with EZ-outs if you drill the hole too small, drill the hole as large as possible Use light pressure so as to not break the Ez-out. That is why I soak the drilled hole with PB Blaster, then not too much pressure on the EZ-out. If it doesn't break free at first, I then use a very small tip on my torch and apply heat in the drill hole, then use an eye dropper to shoot a quick spurt of ice water into the hole, then try the EZ-out again, repeat a couple times. If this fails, then I do the Heli-coil. I use an electro-mag drill to be able to center the bit in the broken stud. It's easier than pulling the engine to place it in a large press such as a Bridgeport. I have done this process on large industrial Steam Boilers usually located in the basement of buildings, where it's way too costly to disassemble and transport to a machine shop. I also have used the left-twist drill bits, and was able to cut the broken stud very close to the threads, allowing the old threads to be pealed out. You should be able to rent a Mag-drill.
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Last edited by Rock Hornbuckle; 05-18-2013 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:19 PM   #12
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Well, he also said about a thread down below the surface. I guess that could mean threads on the stud but again, I just didn't interpret it that way. The odds say there's a 50/50 chance one of us is right!!

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And I learned long ago that if there is a 50/50 chance of me being wrong, 9 times out of 10 I will be!
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

My experience is that a hobbiest will have a better chance of winning tonight's lottery than getting a broken head stud out with an ez out. Carefully weld a nut onto that sucker.
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

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My experience is that a hobbiest will have a better chance of winning tonight's lottery than getting a broken head stud out with an ez out. Carefully weld a nut onto that sucker.
Richard you are absolutely correct. I forget quite often that everyone will have different levels of experience. Although, people will always buy lottery tickets.
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:41 PM   #15
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

I used to love ez-outs. I owned stock in the company and a portable EDM at the time.

Use the welded washer method unless you have the block stripped and can get it in a mill.
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

Question: If the stud is BELOW the block surface and we try to weld a washer are we not taking a chance on the washer ending up being welded to the block and/or filling the void with weld?? I fully understand the procedure and I agree on not trying to use an easy-out.
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:40 PM   #17
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

You cannot weld a washer to the cast iron block, so no worries.
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:50 PM   #18
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

Any chance there is a company that does this professionally near you (and I don't mean a local gas station with a big hammer)? I live in Los Angeles and due to the aerospace industry there are businesses that do this professionally.

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Old 05-18-2013, 04:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

EO's are like any other tool. Buy quality and you'll have better results. Stay away from HF EO's. I have a cousin that is a dentist, he once purchased drills for doing root canals from a supplier of dental equipment, after breaking the second one in a patient's tooth, he only purchased the German made drills.
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Old 05-18-2013, 08:33 PM   #20
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

Its really not that big of a problem if the stud is broken below deck level. I have used the head as a guide. Snyders has a tool that has a drill bit bushing and long drill bit fro drilling out the broken stud. I have used this tool many times with success, every time. This tool lists for $31.50 and is on page A-116 Part number A-6063. I made a guide bushing and went up a drill size that removed most of the stud down close to the threads in the block. I then use the acetelene torch with cutting head to melt and blow out the steel threads of the broken stud. the acetelene torch doesn't harm the cast iron threads in the block. I then chase the block threads and clean out the stud hole. Bratton has a special tool that has three drill guide bushings and bits that removes the broken stud all the way to the standard block threads. This tool setup is more expensive at $140.00 . This will be the easiest for the first time guy. This tool is listed on page 38 of the new Brattons catalog. Part number 8235 . Useing a helicoil or the next thread size stud would be a last resort for me.
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Old 05-18-2013, 08:35 PM   #21
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

For sure sell any easy-outs for scrap metal. The only ones that were somewhat good were the ones I used in the Army, and I haven't seen any of them since I left the Army.

Do the welded washer and nut trick. If it breaks off then weld it a second times. The heat/cool cycles do wonders for loosening the broken stud. If this method fails, then carefully drill a 1/8" hole in the EXACT center of the stud. Be careful to only drill the stud and not the bottom of the stud pocket. Then increase the drill bit size and drill again. Keep increasing the size until you just start to see the edge of the block thread, then stop and use a dental pick to pull out the threads. Once a couple threads are pulled out I usually have good luck running a tap in just enough to grab a thread, then back it out. Repeat as neccessary. Using this method or the welded washer and nut method, I've never had to retap or use a heli-coil.
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:21 PM   #22
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

have read all replies I appreciate the advice.

called my son in law a jack of all trades and an excellent welder and he used my mig welder and did the WASHER NUT THING and with very much
force it snapped off. according to him he has done this type of removal
many times . he will take to his home and keep trying as he said sometimes it takes 2 or 3 tries and he said they will come out.

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Old 05-18-2013, 10:21 PM   #23
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

I'll add a comment about using ez-outs. They are normally used where the head has been abused and the spanner/screw driver has no where to grab, but the thread is not frozen/rusted in. If a stud or bolt breaks because they are frozen/rusted in, 95% of the time, a ez-out will not budge the thread and will then break as well. One thing to think about with ez-outs is that they grip the broken fastener by having a taper, and when you screw them in, they will expand the broken fastener slightly, making the broken fastener even tighter in where it is jammed.
My main method for removing broken fasteners, is to centre pop the broken piece. Then drill a small guide hole carefully remaining central, not hard to do if you go slow. Then drill out the broken piece at a size just under the small diameter of the thread. Then pick out the remaining thread pieces of the fastener, and then clean up the receiving thread with a tap. This negates the need for using a heli-coil.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:17 PM   #24
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Default Re: 2 broken head studs below head surface

I quess it's true...there are many ways to skin a cat.

Fredski, when you install the new stud, use a little dab of copper antisieze.
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