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Old 05-18-2013, 08:01 AM   #1
theHIGHLANDER
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Default Loose fasteners, I didn't get the memo...

Since about 2004-5, in several venues of car "crafting", be it hot rods, racers, prototypes and especially restoration, I find more and more techs and home builders simply under-tightening many of the fasteners. It's maddening. Is this a trend? Was there some new discovery that loose is "the way"? As I cruise through various elements of my pickup, well it's there too. Many of the new roof screws and fasteners were left quite loose. Cab bolts too. When I took over management of a local restoration shop I actually was argued with over how tight things should be. I final assemble my Packards with air ratchets and impacts. Good enough for Packard, good enough for me, right? The look of horror was priceless from the 3 guys I was working with, shocked that I would "risk" tightening things like that. With little exception, just about every job I follow up on or project I take over the same applies. Yes, I admit it's a personal peeve of mine like several other means of practice, but this is just fuggin silly. Anybody else noticed this or is it some regional disease that's struck the car biz in S.E. Mich?
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Old 05-18-2013, 08:38 AM   #2
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Loose fasteners, I didn't get the memo...

I have been preaching this for some time now as most here are the last of a dying breed in that more & more hobbyists just cannot proactively work on their collector cars. Mechanical problem solving, and mechanical reasoning are a struggle for many folks these days, ...and then it is the brain-to-hand coordination that is suffering because many folks just don't get the opportunity to keep these skills sharp on a regular basis. I wonder what this will mean i the future, -not only to the collector car hobby, but in all things similar.
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Old 05-18-2013, 08:56 AM   #3
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Default Re: Loose fasteners, I didn't get the memo...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
I have been preaching this for some time now as most here are the last of a dying breed in that more & more hobbyists just cannot proactively work on their collector cars. Mechanical problem solving, and mechanical reasoning are a struggle for many folks these days, ...and then it is the brain-to-hand coordination that is suffering because many folks just don't get the opportunity to keep these skills sharp on a regular basis. I wonder what this will mean i the future, -not only to the collector car hobby, but in all things similar.
I hope we get a chance to meet over coffee some time. I purposely didn't inject the rest of society lately, but talk about "loose screws" Do you hit Hershey in the fall? 1st cup is on me if you do
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:08 AM   #4
marc hildebrant
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Default Re: Loose fasteners, I didn't get the memo...

I have found the opposite often in that many fasteners are over tightened by individuals who think a power tool is to be used to the max.

Real mechanical skill is in knowing just how much force to use on a nut and bolt for each application.

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Old 05-18-2013, 11:56 AM   #5
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Default Re: Loose fasteners, I didn't get the memo...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
I have been preaching this for some time now as most here are the last of a dying breed in that more & more hobbyists just cannot proactively work on their collector cars. Mechanical problem solving, and mechanical reasoning are a struggle for many folks these days, ...and then it is the brain-to-hand coordination that is suffering because many folks just don't get the opportunity to keep these skills sharp on a regular basis. I wonder what this will mean i the future, -not only to the collector car hobby, but in all things similar.
I hear you there. I don't have much experience with loose fasteners as usually the cars I buy are in pieces or the fasteners are rusted together TIGHT. My A is the first "collector" car I've owned that I bought as a running driving car. It was restored over 40 years ago when people knew how to tighten stuff I guess. I tell friends all the time I'm one of the last dinosaurs still roaming the earth! When we have friends over too the house that are non car people they look at my garage with wonder and amazement. Questions like "your wife doesn't park in the garage and what could you possibly need all these tools for?" I had one friend who was truly beside hisself when I didn't call a plumber to fix a clogged drain in the kitchen after a big meal at our house. About 20 minutes later I was done. I try to always do it myself what ever the job is. Sure my modern cars go to the shop if something I can't fix breaks, but my A? That would be blastfomy.

I guess I just would feel less of a "man" if someone else fixed everything for me. I've built several complete cars over the years and broke my share of parts too. But that's how you learn and I truly enjoy the build the most.

Maybe this is why most of my real friends, not work associates or casual friend, are in there 60's to 90's not my age
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Old 05-18-2013, 01:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: Loose fasteners, I didn't get the memo...

One other thought for club 'powers that be' to contemplate. Several years ago (...and for 3 or 4 years in a row) we held a Fordbarn Workshop at my shop as a way of encouraging hands-on restoration work by the hobbyist. This is not to be confused with a Seminar, but instead it was a gathering of hobbyists that brought projects to work on, or assisted others working on theirs. I feel like it was well attended and well received, ...and the reason I have not continued it was the time expense it took to host it. Also, I always felt weird about having it at my place because it seemed like a conflict of interest but they were a blast to attend none the less.

There was also one hosted by the Model A Club in Rochester in which Will & I drove up to attend. My point is I feel one of the Nat'l clubs really needs to explore and persue a way to host several of these annually around the country as a way to promote hands-on maintenance and restoration for their membership.


BTW, here are some pix from the last Workshop we held at my shop.....
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Old 05-18-2013, 01:36 PM   #7
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Loose fasteners, I didn't get the memo...

...more, (even one of Shelly!! )
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: Loose fasteners, I didn't get the memo...

HEY< I remember Shelly and the pictures you posted of your workshops, which as I remember were well attended ( I believe all slots filled with others in the "wings").
I also don't think they teach "common sense" in the schools or at home any more. I guess it's something you're born with.
Ever notice how a crowd of college graduates always gather at an exit or walkway oblivious to everything blocking everyone else??
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: Loose fasteners, I didn't get the memo...

The only conflict of interest is that you are spending money teaching others to do work that you make a living on thus potentially cheating you out of jobs.

Wish I could have made it to even one, and yes there is a WHOLE lot more the national clubs could do for the hobby but like all politics they are more interested in saying they are officials of the clubs rather than doing something real.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:46 PM   #10
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Default Re: Loose fasteners, I didn't get the memo...

A nip is as good as a busted thread !
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:59 PM   #11
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Default Re: Loose fasteners, I didn't get the memo...

I was hoping to attend one of the workshops at Brent's place when I retired and then they stopped having them. I think there would be plenty of folks interested if something were offered.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:09 AM   #12
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Default Re: Loose fasteners, I didn't get the memo...

Dog here,
HEY! what hoppened to the original question??? It's just PLAIN DUMB to assume that there's a trend in car circles for folks to leave things LOOSE!!! Even us Dogs know better than that!
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:53 AM   #13
theHIGHLANDER
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Default Re: Loose fasteners, I didn't get the memo...

It's so ignorant and seemingly so prevalent that I had to post about it. Shop 1 employed 350 people, shop 2 about 8. Both shops revealed the same ignorance be it related to sloth or just plain stupidity. Is it real? Go to a cruise night around here and see cars with parts rattling or other crap misaligned, noticeably "loose".

It's another example of dwindling quality and a loss of respect for craftsmanship. The body doesn't have to be great, just make the paint shiny. Forget the wheel alignment, I want my 20s. It's sad to see the things that the few of us care about, dedicate ourselves to, go away. Wally World does so well due to the disposable nature of the current marketplace. Imported junk vs a serviceable/repairable product. Imagine one of our As treated that way. Synthetic $2.00/yd upholstery, wadded up "do it yourself" body work, more orange peel than a Florida grove could supply, headlights wrong and pointing any direction but where they should, plastic wire everywhere. While you might remain silent in the assault to your eyes and bruise to your love of Model As, you can't deny how you'd feel about it as you walked away. Apply that to all of it. Get in there full time and watch what's being done on many forms of this like I 1st opined. Damn straight Bill, it's not only dumb it's freakin dangerous. One of the most lame excuses delivered a few years ago as I moved to correct it on the floor, "Well any tighter it might chip the paint!" "Well then someone should invent an airbrush or make small pointy paint brushes so we could can touch up that stuff. Until then I guess we just have to hope it doesn't fall apart on the road. Whadaya think?" "Well let's hope so..."

Yes, that was a REAL conversation. Dumb? Board decorum won't permit me to fully express how I feel about it...
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