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Old 10-25-2018, 05:25 PM   #1
Cape Codder
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Default Proper Head Installation

I have another thread (Terrible Backfiring) which is in conjunction with these questions but didn't want to include this in that one.

When trying to get the head off five or six bolts came out with the nut attached. Actually, I didn't turn them too many turns and was able to turn them out with my fingers. With the rest of the bolts, I removed the nuts leaving those bolts in the block.

So the questions are, could these bolts have not been installed deep enough? Also, how did this affect the torque on the bolts themselves?

Waiting patiently for Saturday and the delivery of my head removal tool!
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Old 10-25-2018, 05:47 PM   #2
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Default Re: Proper Head Installation

Have you checked the headbolt torque periodically? I usually do it in the spring before and after first engine starting. Studs coming out don't really mean they weren't installed deep enough, but likely before the common use of locktite.
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Old 10-25-2018, 05:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: Proper Head Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle View Post
Have you checked the headbolt torque periodically? I usually do it in the spring before and after first engine starting. Studs coming out don't really mean they weren't installed deep enough, but likely before the common use of locktite.
Loctite fails at about 180 degrees. It is common for our cars to reach that temperature so it's use is moot to say the least. Even if it did work in that application, I wouldn't use it because I don't like removing broken studs.
There's a time and place for Loctite but I don't think this is one. That said, I use it elswhere witjhout hesitation.
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Old 10-25-2018, 06:39 PM   #4
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Default Re: Proper Head Installation

Was the hight of the stud the same for all of them. With the nut on the stud and tightened down there should be 1 or 2 threads visible above the nut. I am assuming all of the studs were the proper length to start with. They should be all the same length except the one that holds the clamp for the conduit to the distributor. It is slightly longer.
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Old 10-26-2018, 03:55 AM   #5
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Default Re: Proper Head Installation

In the attached video Rich Fallucca of Antique Engine Rebuilders says that they install the studs in the block adding a dab of RTV sealant on the course thread of the stud. He then screws them all the way into the block and backs them off a full turn to allow for 11/2 to 2 threads to extend above the torqued head nut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5kDrtTJGsU
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: Proper Head Installation

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Originally Posted by chap52 View Post
In the attached video Rich Fallucca of Antique Engine Rebuilders says that they install the studs in the block adding a dab of RTV sealant on the course thread of the stud. He then screws them all the way into the block and backs them off a full turn to allow for 11/2 to 2 threads to extend above the torqued head nut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5kDrtTJGsU
Last head gasket I did was a similar process except I used Permatex High Tack. Worked beautifully.
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Old 10-26-2018, 12:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: Proper Head Installation

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Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
Loctite fails at about 180 degrees. It is common for our cars to reach that temperature so it's use is moot to say the least. Even if it did work in that application, I wouldn't use it because I don't like removing broken studs.
There's a time and place for Loctite but I don't think this is one. That said, I use it elswhere witjhout hesitation.
I agree it could make removing broken studs tough, not sure I would use it in this case either. A little heat on the nuts will make a big difference in not twisting off studs. Are the published specs for Locktite wrong per your experience? I've never had a problem with locktite failing at higher temps. 150 degrees C is about 300 degrees F. What am I missing? Let us know. thx
http://www.loctite.com.au/aue/conten..._Chart_V10.pdf
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Last edited by eagle; 10-26-2018 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 10-26-2018, 01:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: Proper Head Installation

Hopefully you're going to use the copper gasket this time when you re-install the head..................JMO FWIW.
Paul in CT
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Old 10-26-2018, 05:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: Proper Head Installation

chap52 Thanks for your response and also the website info. To be honest I have seen it before but I do thank you for posting it as I will be watching it again. I thought it was a very interesting video with some great info. He makes me think twice about what I use for oil! No, No, No, I'm not trying to start a new thread!
ryanheacox Thanks to you also for responding. I have to ask a question of you. What type/kind of gasket and do you have a standard or high compression head. I am considering the latter.
eagleAlso thanks for your response and experiences. It will be interesting for someone to answer "what are you missing".
1931 flamingo Lastly, thanks also to you for responding. I don't think I will be using the copper gasket if I finally decide to install a High Compression Head. Actually, I don't think I will use it in any case as my opinion is it is not a quality sealing gasket. Sorry, but my opinion.
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: Proper Head Installation

With the continuous heating and cooling of the block, you can get bolts loosening over time. I've been told to retorque the head a few times if the head is re-installed and then it won't hurt to recheck it once a year. If you re-use the head bolts, the bolts are more likely to loosen up over time as well.
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Old 10-26-2018, 08:33 PM   #11
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Default Re: Proper Head Installation

heneste Well I'll tell you I just checked the torque on this motor before we went to the New England Meet Sept.19.
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: Proper Head Installation

Not necessarily germane but I acquired a rebuilt and maybe never run engine with perfect 2-thread exposure of all of the studs which were not originals. I removed the head to install a new Brumfield head and every stud came out of the block and none of the green Loctited nuts came off the studs until I heated them. The rebuilder Loctited the nuts to the studs before installation in the block to achieve uniformity and presumably had to use a little bit more finesse to torque the head on the coarse threads.
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