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Old 11-06-2018, 08:49 AM   #1
Gold Digger
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Default Stuck engine

This is not Model A but Model TT fire truck. I haven't started this truck in 3 years and tried to crank it sometime ago and found it stuck. It has been stored inside and drove to the spot where I tried to start it. It didn't have water in the engine so I new it hadn't leaked in the cylinders. I took out the spark plugs and ran a scope down all 4 cylinders and there was no sign of rust. Back in the summer we had humidity that made everything in my machine shop sweat and rust and I wonder if this is a victim of this. I mixed up some atf and acetone and poured about 1/2 pint in each cylinder. Waited a couple days and jumped on crank but nothing moved. Tried this every day for a week. So I poured 1/2 pint of Evaporust in each cylinder and put a highlift jack under the crank and have left it in traction so to speak for the last month but no movement. I think its just the rings that are stuck to the cylinder walls because the walls are bright and shiny. The other bad news is the two middle cylinders are at TDC and the other two are at BDC and if I have to pull the head and bump the pistons with a block of wood it may damage the crank or rods. Any helpful ideas would be a help.
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:52 AM   #2
Patrick L.
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Default Re: Stuck engine

It seems as though the oil has sat in the cylinders long enough. Have you tried rocking the vehicle in gear ?
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Old 11-06-2018, 10:55 AM   #3
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Default Re: Stuck engine

I think the Evaporust was the wrong choice here, if you can, get it out of there and go back to the atf and acetone or a good breakfree product.
Continue rocking the vehicle as Patrick said, it may take some time but it will break free.
On the oft chance...may also check your starter bendix...just to make sure it is not bound up in there.
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:37 AM   #4
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Default Re: Stuck engine

I'm just wondering if it won't loosen up possibly pull the head and with a heat gun warm up the pistons and saturate them with the acetone and atf mixture,worth a try.
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:44 AM   #5
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Default Re: Stuck engine

I freed up a 1907 Model R engine by putting a jack under the crank to keep pressure on it and adding acetone ATF mixture in the cylinders and then used a heat gun to warm the cylinders. It took about 5 days of this and when I went to the garage to warm them again I found it had broken loose and could be turned by hand with the crank.
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: Stuck engine

I agree with rocking it. Just make sure it is in high gear. More leverage. Also hold it in neutral while someone else pushes it, then let the pedal up into high. I bet this will break it loose.
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Old 11-06-2018, 01:22 PM   #7
midgetracer
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Default Re: Stuck engine

No way to rock a Model T in low gear unless you have someone sit inside with their foot on the low pedal.
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Old 11-06-2018, 02:32 PM   #8
J Franklin
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Default Re: Stuck engine

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Originally Posted by midgetracer View Post
No way to rock a Model T in low gear unless you have someone sit inside with their foot on the low pedal.
Will I guess you could put the brake lever all the way forward into high gear.
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Old 11-06-2018, 02:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: Stuck engine

use 50/50 atf and kerosene mix in cylinders



install crank and long bar on end of crank


hang a cinder block- it will break on its own accord.
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Old 11-06-2018, 04:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: Stuck engine

You don’t want to rock it in low gear. High gear will give you much more torque on the engine.
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Old 11-06-2018, 04:15 PM   #11
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Default Re: Stuck engine

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll try and suck the evporust out and start over using ATF and kerosene this time. I'll also pull the starter and check that out. A model TT with a worm gear rear end is a little hard to rock in gear but maybe it is helping. Mean time I'll keep the jack under the crank. I'll also try heating the cylinders.
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Old 11-06-2018, 06:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: Stuck engine

Too bad the pistons are on TDC/bdc.
I took off the rocker arms om a Ford V4 once and machined a plug that would fit in the spark plug hole with a grease nipple.
Poured ATF oil in the cylinder and used the grease pump to fill up the rest.

With 90 mm pistons and up to 600bars from the grease pump I could theoretically push the piston with 45 tons...

The crank moved ca one degree for every pump action

The engine would not start even though we got the pistons moving. The pin for the fuel pump was also stuck because of dirty Old oil. Pulled the pin, cleaned it and the engine started
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Old 11-06-2018, 08:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: Stuck engine

It doesn't HAVE to be rings, could be valves or lifters. It will get just as tight as rings.
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Old 11-07-2018, 12:22 AM   #14
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Default Re: Stuck engine

How long was the engine running when it was parked?
After sticking 2 engines in 1977, I will never start an engine unless it runs at least 30 minutes to cook out all the condensation from a cold start.


Actually having the pistons at TDC and BDC is the best leverage for the hand crank, rocking, or starter. Try jumping the starter with a 12 volt battery and have someone else hand crank at the same time.


I agree with Keith in #3 to get the Evaporust out and use petroleum solvents.
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Old 11-07-2018, 03:42 AM   #15
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Default Re: Stuck engine

Yes, as above could be valve train also. Pull the side covers off and spray the atf acetone mixture in there over the valve stems and lifters. If you can see rust around the lifters you will know that’s a problem.
You can heat up the outside of the cylinders and heat up the lifter bores.
Let it sit for a few days and keep soaking it. Like suggested above rock the car back and forth in high gear and see if anything starts to move. Lots of spraying, praying and patience
It will free up.
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Old 11-07-2018, 08:45 AM   #16
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Default Re: Stuck engine

I think some are missing the worm drive rear end comment. There is no rocking a worm drive that I have ever seen. Jack
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Old 11-07-2018, 10:10 AM   #17
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Default Re: Stuck engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhowes View Post
I think some are missing the worm drive rear end comment. There is no rocking a worm drive that I have ever seen. Jack
That's true for many worm gears, but the angle of the worm screw does allow rocking on the AA or TT, but that would still be my last choice due to the effort exerted.


I recall someone saying they put a jack under the hand crank to push up, and left it there for a week. They also oiled the cylinders, or used another penetrating fluid, and it finally came loose. I'd guess the heat/cool cycles during the day and night helped.
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Old 11-07-2018, 10:54 AM   #18
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Default Re: Stuck engine

Unless something is binding the ring gear, it must be the pistons holding things up.
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Old 11-07-2018, 05:52 PM   #19
Gold Digger
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Default Re: Stuck engine

The weather has changed to cold and work has picked up a little in the machine shop but as soon as I get my ducks in a row again I'm back on the TT.
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Old 11-07-2018, 08:11 PM   #20
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Default Re: Stuck engine

Evaporust is one of the worse things you can use.
Acetone / ATF is a good alternative.
Also check the cam, lifters, and make sure it is really in neutral.
Maybe jack up the rear wheels and make sure that the brake is off.

Another alternative is to drain the oil, etc. fill the motor - transmission with kerosene and let it sit for awhile. Then drain the kerosene and see if it is loose.
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