time for another whitewall rant......

[Chris in WNC]

comments in another thread pushed this button.

I know the white vs black tire is a personal preference thing, but why oh why do we see cars scoring 500 points in Touring Class judging with whitewalls. it gripes me to no end.

I see cars (unwisely) entered in fine point judging with whitewalls. isn't there an automatic point deduction for this?

seems there shold be at least 1 or 2 points dinged in Tour Class for single-sided whitewall tires.

would appreciate any education the JS or Tour guys can provide here......

[MikeK]

The whole point of touring class is to permit some of the club members who do not have $80,000 to invest in a fine-points vehicle an opportunity to have a bit of joy showing their daily drivers. Yep, you're definitely hung up on white-walls if your focus is wanting someone ELSE to suffer a deduction. I tend to look for what someone has right, not wrong. If you nit-pick everything in touring class you end up with fine-point and very few cars shown at a meet.

Not everyone with an A is focused on the plain look of a no-frills off the sales-floor A. Even fine-point demands a spare tire. Outrageous! The car came with the metal wheel only. Why not complain about that.

[lookin-backtexas]

Chris:
I'm with you - Model A's came with blackwalls from the factory and that's my preference too! Most guys I know who have put whitewalls on their A's have later regretted it because they became "yellowwalls". They just look much more original with blackwalls like they came with.
Fred

[raprice]

I have whitewalls on my '30 Model A, but they were on the car when I bought it. They were brand new at the time. When I replace the tires, they will be blackwalls as they were when the car was new.
Rog

[Fred K-OR]

Need some education here. Were whitewalls not an option in the 30's?

[ctvpa]

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Yes, they came with blackwalls. But they also came with no bumpers. How many have added that option, just like whitewalls were 'an option'.
I have blackwalls on my roadster, and whitewalls on my Tudor.
I saw a 30 deluxe roadster with a cream body and tan fenders, not for me, but I have to say it looked nice. It's your choice.

[Hicktick]

I don't like whitewalls on an A , but to each , his own .

Whitewalls do look good








on a big Packard.

[whirnot]

No comment

[mhsprecher]

My Town Sedan came with whitewalls. They are now yellow, on one side only, oddly enough. When I need new tires, I will get blackwalls, but I can live with the whitewalls. I have seen period photos of cars with whitewalls. To each his own.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Are "we" KRANKIN' about this again? Freedom is all about choice!! Some must be really BORED, don't you need to wax the car, take out the trash, fix the toilet, brush the Dog's teeth, pet the Cat, oil the pulley on the well rope, wash your coffee mugs, oil the Oogah Horn, throw away the BEER cans, or sumpthin' useful??
Buster T.

[midgetracer]

Politics, Religion and tire choice should be up to the individual person. Why do I hear people concerned about how my car looks. To each his own I say!! I apologize to no one for how my cars look and try to see the good in all Model As. This subject should be banned.

[bart78]

These are reasons that have kept me from shows and clubs. There are all ways some that think they know how everyone's cars should look. These are allso reasons why I think more and more are staying away from restoration folks.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by bart78

These are reasons that have kept me from shows and clubs. There are all ways some that think they know how everyone's cars should look. These are allso reasons why I think more and more are staying away from restoration folks.

Bart,
I put a little sign in my 1/4 window: "If you see something that don't meet your expectations or something you don't like, I either know about it or don't care! Thank you!" Bill W.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by ctvpa

Yes, they came with blackwalls. But they also came with no bumpers. How many have added that option, just like whitewalls were 'an option'.
I have blackwalls on my roadster, and whitewalls on my Tudor.
I saw a 30 deluxe roadster with a cream body and tan fenders, not for me, but I have to say it looked nice. It's your choice.

No BUMPERS ??, When ??

[Rowdy]

I definately agree whiewalls look bad, but they cost more so some have to show they can splurge dispite the terrible appearance. Just my thoughts. Rod

[Rock Hornbuckle]

I once had a fat girlfriend that had whitewalls, I traded her for a skinny one with blackwalls!

[amdriven2liv]

So, I haven't even picked up the A we are getting.


It has "white walls" on as she sits.



Is this what I get to hear if I show up this summer at an event?


Doesn't sound too fun.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by amdriven2liv

So, I haven't even picked up the A we are getting.


It has "white walls" on as she sits.



Is this what I get to hear if I show up this summer at an event?


Doesn't sound too fun.

The whitewall debate is just for laughs!!
Speaking of "Just for Laughs" I sure wish we could get that show. It was really funny the few times I saw it.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by amdriven2liv

So, I haven't even picked up the A we are getting.


It has "white walls" on as she sits.



Is this what I get to hear if I show up this summer at an event?


Doesn't sound too fun.

Hey, What do you think I hear when I show up with my 1928 Coupe that has won the "MASTER RESTERATION AWARD" from MARC, and it has Whitewalls on it & had them on when it went thru fine point judging..

[amdriven2liv]

Originally Posted by Fred

Hey, What do you think I hear when I show up with my 1928 Coupe that has won the "MASTER RESTERATION AWARD" from MARC, and it has Whitewalls on it & had them on when it went thru fine point judging..

Did your "Ears burn off"!!!!!

Truly the talk of the town.!

[WTSHNN]

Wow.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure you lose 10 points for having white walls in MARC Touring Class.

You can buy the Touring Class judging standards from MARC for future reference.

-Tim

[eagle]

You may very well think that. I however, couldn't possibly comment.

[modelAtony]

MY WIFE'S and uncle bought a 30 tudor in 2003-2004 ? around ft worth,tx area. We drove from Louisiana to see it. Great car 30 tudor prefect. engine rebuilt by mechanic at bell helicopter and balanced. . GREAT PART about car it had 6 DOUBLE WHITEWALL'S. I told them to order 6 new regular white walls to get the double walls of the ground. THEY ARE IN A DARK CLOSET IN THE HOUSE TODAY. i TOLD THEM THEY COULD RENT THEM OUT TO POINT JUDGING CARS . HAVE FUN MODEL A TONY lAFAYETTE,LA

[Dusty]

White Walls are the least of my problem....try green fenders, I have been shunned by my own club

Retired and tired in WV

dusty

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Are "we" KRANKIN' about this again? Freedom is all about choice!! Some must be really BORED, don't you need to wax the car, take out the trash, fix the toilet, brush the Dog's teeth, pet the Cat, oil the pulley on the well rope, wash your coffee mugs, oil the Oogah Horn, throw away the BEER cans, or sumpthin' useful??
Buster T.

Buster T, I did find something to do today. I went out and installed my new whitewalls on my 29 std coupe. (this outa keep things going).

[zzlegend]

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Never could understand why some people have the mentality or prefer to knock others cars. Weather it be whitewalls or paint or juice brakes or? To each his own.
A lot of good overall info on this barn so why not loosen up.

[29ModelA]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Bart,
I put a little sign in my 1/4 window: "If you see something that don't meet your expectations or something you don't like, I either know about it or don't care! Thank you!" Bill W.

Bill,

That is the first time I have seen the larger version of your avatar, my god that is a pretty coupe (your current one). I like it

[dankurth]

My huckster, which has whitewalls, won a trophy for best in show at the last show I attended.
My awards were a trophy and a pool vacuum.
I don't have a pool, and now I feel like I should send the trophy back.

[Hicktick]

I like ladies in stockings .

I also like bare legged ones too .

Somebody fetch my jug .

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by dankurth

My huckster, which has whitewalls, won a trophy for best in show at the last show I attended.
My awards were a trophy and a pool vacuum.
I don't have a pool, and now I feel like I should send the trophy back.

LOL
I told you this debate was just for laughs.

[antiquepa]

White Walls, Black Wall, what u like, not what others like, if u don:t like white walls, or black walls, buy your own car and put on it what u like..if we all liked the same thing would:nt life be boreing. Just my 2 cents, u can see what I like, I really think all Model 'A's look good.....!!

[CarlG]

Black tires with an overdirve. The perfect combination.

[bart78]

These look nice.

[Napa Skip]

1. Observe avatar.

2. Eat your heart out.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by 29ModelA

Bill,

That is the first time I have seen the larger version of your avatar, my god that is a pretty coupe (your current one). I like it

Thank you, kind SIR, & tomorrow Vermin will be running & tickling Ol' Bill's butt in the swivel bar stool seats along with Buster T!!!! Bill W.

[Dusty]

I think I will turn my white walls to the inside, this way I will have the best of both worlds. Can't do that with the fenders though as they are green under neath as well.....oh the humanity

dusty

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by amdriven2liv

So, I haven't even picked up the A we are getting.


It has "white walls" on as she sits.



Is this what I get to hear if I show up this summer at an event?


Doesn't sound too fun.

most people don't care enough to say anything. People on here just seem to be vocal about their opinions.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by modelAtony

MY WIFE'S and uncle bought a 30 tudor in 2003-2004 ? around ft worth,tx area. We drove from Louisiana to see it. Great car 30 tudor prefect. engine rebuilt by mechanic at bell helicopter and balanced. . GREAT PART about car it had 6 DOUBLE WHITEWALL'S. I told them to order 6 new regular white walls to get the double walls of the ground. THEY ARE IN A DARK CLOSET IN THE HOUSE TODAY. i TOLD THEM THEY COULD RENT THEM OUT TO POINT JUDGING CARS . HAVE FUN MODEL A TONY lAFAYETTE,LA

Happen to have any pics of the car? Just wondering if I know the vehicle...

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Originally Posted by Hicktick

I like ladies in stockings .

I also like bare legged ones too .

Somebody fetch my jug .

I'm working on my jug. I really need it now that the fat girlfriend with the whitewalls has returned! lol Oh why did I ever let the skinny one with the blackwalls get away?

A little jocularity goes a long way....

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Dusty

I think I will turn my white walls to the inside, this way I will have the best of both worlds. Can't do that with the fenders though as they are green under neath as well.....oh the humanity

dusty

Dusty, Saw a clean coupe with metallic green fenders & same color on the engine, one pressure wash & most of the engine paint blew off!! PRETTY FLAKEY! Bill W.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Chris in WNC

comments in another thread pushed this button.

I know the white vs black tire is a personal preference thing, but why oh why do we see cars scoring 500 points in Touring Class judging with whitewalls. it gripes me to no end.

I see cars (unwisely) entered in fine point judging with whitewalls. isn't there an automatic point deduction for this?

seems there shold be at least 1 or 2 points dinged in Tour Class for single-sided whitewall tires.

would appreciate any education the JS or Tour guys can provide here......

Here is what MARC says about touring class;

When judging an item listed in the Touring Class Judging Standards, can the item receive partial credit, specifically, split points for the items judged? No. As previously stated most line items are an "objective verification" that can either be answered with a "yes" or "no". If the answer is "yes" then the vehicle will receive the appropriate number of points assigned to the line item. If "no" the line item will receive "0" points.

Your Touring Class Model A will be judged in 6 Areas
Area 1 Engine compartment, right side of vehicle
Area 2 Engine compartment, left side of vehicle
Area 3 Interior
Area 4 Undercarriage
Area 5 Exterior body and fenders
Area 6 Exterior bright work

If someone belongs to a club and they continually rag on for one thing or another QUIT. Our club has cars with all sorts of modifications and colors. These car owners have had there cars compared with others and differences have been pointed out often by the request of the owner. That's it these are the differences, not are these differences bad or good. We all assist each other with our cars dispite the drift from original.

An opinion is a belief about matters commonly considered to be subjective, i.e., it is based on that which is less than absolutely certain.

[Greg Jones]

In my collection of stuff i have an original Ford ad for the 1930 Cabriolet. The picture of the Cab shows it has whitewalls on it, inside and out. I assume it is a Ford Corporation ad for the time, but maybe it was an ad placed by one of the branches or other dealers? I am out of the US at the moment but when I get home will scan it and post it. After all, you can't have too many discussions about whitewalls, nondetergent oil, modern point plates, babbitt vs. inserts, on and on and on....

[Tom Wesenberg]

Forget the whitewalls and go with an all white tire!

[JBill]

Should have been headed "Time for another PETTY AND POINTLESS whitewall tire rant."

[modelAtony]

Originally Posted by Jordan

Happen to have any pics of the car? Just wondering if I know the vehicle...

JORDAN, I don't know how to post pictures but Ill get my daughter to do it this afternoon. The car came from a very nice older gentlemen named mr. Black he was from KELLER,TX. My avatar has my 31 tudor if you look at the picture of my 1929 roadster, that car originally was in the Dallas club back in the day. I am from Farmers Branch . The first time I saw the roadster was in 1961, 1962 at the STATE FAIR. Dallas club use to have their A's under a big tent next to the old steam train. I WAS 12 THEN AND THAT ROSE BEIGE ROADSTER WITH THE CHROME DOUBLE SPARES AND ORANGE WHEELS WAS THE PRETTIEST THING I EVER SAW. I went to the world meet in dallas in 2008 , aqsked the older members in the Dallas club if anyone remembered the roadster, no luck. I have been close to this car since 1999 . Friend of mine bought it in Dallas that year and I have owned it about 3 years. I will get the double ww picture here soon as i can have fun modelAtony Lafayette,la

[Dave in MN]

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6 times "No comment"...

[George Miller]

It is kind of funny to me. Some of these guys that do not like white walls, because they did not come that way. Have all kinds of things on there cars they did not come with. Stone guards, step plates and electronic ignition and so on. It is called freedom of choice.

[30ccpickup]

Originally Posted by bart78

These look nice.

For a little more, you could of had. (I just like Model A's)

[buddridge]

Opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one.

[Mark from Indy]

As a new member to the forum, and a new A owner, here goes my reputation - who really gives a rats toot?
These type of threads, like the "those who repair their cars are idiots" threads, serves no helpful purpose.
I have really enjoyed finding this forum and have become addicted. I like the fact I can ask if my left handed Johnson Rod is twisted, and someone will tell me it is right handed...
Even though my direct questions don't always get answered, it's like asking a question in some class, the answer may benefit the larger audience.
Keep the forum on that type of track and you will keep newbies in the world you love - Model A's - and not scare us off

Mark

P.S. - I want that car in post #48 !

[Fred]

Originally Posted by bart78

These look nice.

Car would lose
points in FINE POINT. No bumpers, & no rumble seat handle !! But it does have BLACK WALLS...

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by modelAtony

JORDAN, I don't know how to post pictures but Ill get my daughter to do it this afternoon. The car came from a very nice older gentlemen named mr. Black he was from KELLER,TX. My avatar has my 31 tudor if you look at the picture of my 1929 roadster, that car originally was in the Dallas club back in the day. I am from Farmers Branch . The first time I saw the roadster was in 1961, 1962 at the STATE FAIR. Dallas club use to have their A's under a big tent next to the old steam train. I WAS 12 THEN AND THAT ROSE BEIGE ROADSTER WITH THE CHROME DOUBLE SPARES AND ORANGE WHEELS WAS THE PRETTIEST THING I EVER SAW. I went to the world meet in dallas in 2008 , aqsked the older members in the Dallas club if anyone remembered the roadster, no luck. I have been close to this car since 1999 . Friend of mine bought it in Dallas that year and I have owned it about 3 years. I will get the double ww picture here soon as i can have fun modelAtony Lafayette,la

Yeah, I've heard of Mr. Black. I live in Keller too. I remember that it was his wife who was interested in Model A's and she had 3 or 4. After she died, he sold them all off. I don't remember their cars tho, so it would be nice to see a picture. Robert Black actually just died a few months ago.

[modelAtony]

Originally Posted by Jordan

Yeah, I've heard of Mr. Black. I live in Keller too. I remember that it was his wife who was interested in Model A's and she had 3 or 4. After she died, he sold them all off. I don't remember their cars tho, so it would be nice to see a picture. Robert Black actually just died a few months ago.

Jordan yea your right. His name was Robert now that you mentioned it and yes He talked alot about his wife, she had died and SHE was the big ft worth club pusher. We spent about 2 hrs at his real nice small ranch out of town . He also had a 30 coupe with rumble set in out barn about 70 yards from house. It had good body but was all orig. Needed to be restored he said he wanted 4,000.00 for it I will send a picture later on it. The 30 tudor that my wife's aunt and uncle bought started out at 14,000.00 and after the 2 hr talking MR. Black said, ah HECK yall are really nice people and your kinfolk there have a model A. He said lets make the deal for 12,000.00 and everybody will be happy.THAT'S the way the deal went down. cash paid and MOORE SMILES PER MILE. HAVE FUN MODELATONY LAFAYETTE,LA

[31Tudor]

To WTSHNN's question, there is no point deduction for white walls in touring class judging. A friends car scored 489 in touring class, had white walls, and that was not one of the deductions.

[Malcolm Robertson]

It's been siting on jack stands for 3-years....I would welcome White or Black if it would get it on the road.

[Mitch//pa]

"quote" Originally Posted by raprice
I have whitewalls on my '30 Model A, but they were on the car when I bought it. They were brand new at the time. When I replace the tires, they will be blackwalls as they were when the car was new.
Rog "quote"

flip them inside out

[Chris in WNC]

Originally Posted by amdriven2liv

Is this what I get to hear if I show up this summer at an event?


Doesn't sound too fun.

I would ONLY share my opinion of your whitewalls if we were good friends.
in one-on-one meetings with all others I do not think it kind or wise to do so.....

on this board I'm not so reserved. those who know me know I'm rabid in my opinion of whitewalls but supportive of ALL Model Aers. just think a MAXIMUM of 498 or 499 points is appropriuate for a car with whitewalls.

your results (and opinion) may vary.......

[Chris in WNC]

Originally Posted by WTSHNN

Wow.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure you lose 10 points for having white walls in MARC Touring Class.

You can buy the Touring Class judging standards from MARC for future reference.

-Tim

not so. check the reporting from last summer's meets. there was at least one 500-point car with whitewalls....

[Chris in WNC]

Originally Posted by MikeK

The whole point of touring class is to permit some of the club members who do not have $80,000 to invest in a fine-points vehicle an opportunity to have a bit of joy showing their daily drivers. Yep, you're definitely hung up on white-walls if your focus is wanting someone ELSE to suffer a deduction. I tend to look for what someone has right, not wrong. If you nit-pick everything in touring class you end up with fine-point and very few cars shown at a meet.

Not everyone with an A is focused on the plain look of a no-frills off the sales-floor A. Even fine-point demands a spare tire. Outrageous! The car came with the metal wheel only. Why not complain about that.

Mike, you missed the point entirely.

I LOVE the Touring Class judging for all the good reasons you specify.

my ONLY point here is to question the wisdom of giving 500 points to a car with whitewalls....

guys like Dusty who dare to be different are 100% OK in my view of the world, BUT his paint color would get a point deduction just as I believe whitewalls should.

[Phil]

Man you are hung up on white walls! Love them or hate either is fine. Why is it necessary to push your unwanted opinion of someone else's car. Like my momma always said "if you can't say something to someone, don't say anything at all". Just be nice it doesn't cost a thing.

[Chris in WNC]

Originally Posted by Phil

Man you are hung up on white walls! Love them or hate either is fine. Why is it necessary to push your unwanted opinion of someone else's car. Like my momma always said "if you can't say something to someone, don't say anything at all". Just be nice it doesn't cost a thing.

yes, I confess to being "hung up" on whitewalls, as are MANY of our fellow Model Aers on both sides of this option.

but read my previous statements carefully: I'm not trying to "push" my opinion on someone else's car.

I'm just curious why those who wrote the Tour Class standards did not opt to make a small deduction. do any of those folks care to add to this exchange?

a few years ago I questioned the wisdom of allowing Tour Class cars to be trailered to meets rather than driven. one of the Tour Class committee members responded, with a very satisfactory rationale for allowing it.

remember, all my peeing & moaning about whitewalls on Model As is very sincere but intended to be fun. neither side can really come up with any justification for their position beyond "I like the way mine looks better"

[Bruce Adams]

Originally Posted by Greg Jones

In my collection of stuff i have an original Ford ad for the 1930 Cabriolet. The picture of the Cab shows it has whitewalls on it, inside and out. I assume it is a Ford Corporation ad for the time, but maybe it was an ad placed by one of the branches or other dealers? I am out of the US at the moment but when I get home will scan it and post it. After all, you can't have too many discussions about whitewalls, nondetergent oil, modern point plates, babbitt vs. inserts, on and on and on....

Thats a national ad if its the wedding party one of the Cabby with the whitewalls. It was in a number of national magazines.

[Phil]

Ok, I guess I mis understood. I did not get that you were having fun. It sounded serious. I know very little about judging either touring or fine points. I always assumed (you know what happens when you assume) that touring class was not counted off for so called "upgrades" like seal beams, 12volt, alt.or acc. Like stone guard,step plates, wind wings.
All my As are what I call original --- 6 volt, generator, original type upholstery, lots of repro parts where I had to. The 31s are 31 don't know if they are are correct to date of manufacture. The 28 Pheaton is early and has most early stuff, but not all. I am happy with them and they bring a lot of joy to me and people who see them when I drive them or at a local show. But if chasing points is your thing I hope you win. I love my Model As. One with www three black.

[Chris in WNC]

chasing points is not my thing either.
have never had any interest in having my cars judged,
although I try to follow the Judging Standards faithfully.
even at local-yokel car shows I add "please do not judge" on my windshield card.......

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Dog here,
After all this looong "DISCUSSION", will our life be any different tomorrow? NOPE! Fall outa' bed, Ol' Bill scratches my back afore' I go get water to cure my "PASTEY" mouth, don't know what Ol' Bill scratches on the way to take a pain pill & do his "HANDSOME" stuff to try to get his head & body operatin' so's we MAYBE? can get the car runnin' today! (LOOOONG SENTENCE!)
When I mentioned WHITEWALLS, Bill said, "We ain't got whitewalls, DUMMY"!----Guess I got to totally re-train him, It's a whole NEW day! Buster T.

[Fred]

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Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Dog here,
After all this looong "DISCUSSION", will our life be any different tomorrow? NOPE! Fall outa' bed, Ol' Bill scratches my back afore' I go get water to cure my "PASTEY" mouth, don't know what Ol' Bill scratches on the way to take a pain pill & do his "HANDSOME" stuff to try to get his head & body operatin' so's we MAYBE? can get the car runnin' today! (LOOOONG SENTENCE!)
When I mentioned WHITEWALLS, Bill said, "We ain't got whitewalls, DUMMY"!----Guess I got to totally re-train him, It's a whole NEW day! Buster T.

JUST A GREAT POST !! ?? A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION HERE ??

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Fred

JUST A GREAT POST !! ?? A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION HERE ??

Bill is not one to mix words, sentences maybe but not words Far as losing points for my green fenders I'm not worried about such stuff but I do have some concerns about the death threats

Thinkn about a new camo paint job for the "A" in WV

dusty

[ctlikon0712]

Thinkn about a new camo paint job for the "A" in WV

LOL, in my best Larry the Cable guy voice "Now that is funny right there!"

[amdriven2liv]

Originally Posted by Dusty

Thinkn about a new camo paint job for the "A" in WV

dusty

I was thinking the same direction! Arabian Sand dark ( for my A would be correct) with Camo wrapped fenders, with matching painted rims.

It would draw in the next generation ( early 20's folks ) into the A world.

Hmmm.............

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Fred

JUST A GREAT POST !! ?? A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION HERE ??

You should get a Dog, Fred, they contribute SO much joy & support to an otherwise mundane day.
I ponder what should our epitaphs read?
1-He had a Dog!
or
2-BOY! he knew his part numbers!
Bill W.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Now that you guys have settled the whitewall issue, what am I to do with this fat girlfriend and her whitewalls, and how do I get the skinny one to come back?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

Now that you guys have settled the whitewall issue, what am I to do with this fat girlfriend and her whitewalls, and how do I get the skinny one to come back?

Buy her a Studebaker!

[oliverguy]

I put white walls on my 31 town sedan. I think it looks nice and could give a crap what anyone else thinks.

[Bob-A]

Years ago the '29 phaeton I bought out of SC had double white walls on it. They were made by Coker back in the 70's when the car was restored.
When I got the car in 2004 the white walls had all turned yellow.
Nothing I used would get the yellow out so I called Coker to see what they would suggest. After laughing about how old the tires were they told me sandpaper was the only thing that would remove the yellow. And they were right! The 'ol lady and I did a heck of a lot of wet sanding
with 400 and 600 grit paper, but it did remove most of the yellow. As old as the tires were they were not dry rotted bad and we put more then a few miles on her before getting new ones. Unfortunately we could not get any more double white walls.

Bob-A

[Special Coupe Frank]

Since this thread seems to really be more about JUDGING than tires,
I'll throw my 2-cents in...

Both MARC and MAFCA seem to be really thorough in their Judging Standards.

While we do know that white-sidewall tires were available before, during , and after the Model A's production run, and COULD HAVE BEEN ordered or at least installed by an original owner, historical evidence seems to show that ALL white sidewall tires available in the 1927-'31 period were double-sided white walls...

Therefore, I would submit, that any Model A ( or other 1927-'31 make for AACA or other Marque -specific events), should take some sort of points deduction for wearing single-sided WWW tires, as they were NOT available when the car was new.

For those who say "but the Model A never had WWW tires", take a look through the original factory photos offered for sale in Bratton's catalog (plus others, I'm sure), and there are several period photos of Model A Fords wearing White Sidewall Tries, one them is even an AA, I believe.

Now, having said all that, perhaps "Driver Participation Class" should not be quite as strict as the full-bore JS judging ? If people want to go for that, they will, and will prep their car appropriately and take what comes...

I seriously doubt that I will ever have an antique car of ANY make / vintage that will be a fine-point car... that's not why I'm in this hobby... I want my vehicles to look nice, and function properly and safely, but I'm in this to work-on and drive my cars... that's where I get my satisfaction...

And I don't mind WWW on my Model A... for that matter, the majority of '28-'29 A's I see on-line or at local shows ( even Macungie and Hershey ) don't even have BLACK wheels...

[Chris in WNC]

Frank- I agree Touring class should cut more slack than fine point. perhaps only a 5-point deduction for WSW instead of 10. just PLEASE no 500 point cars with whitewalls. very disappointed that nobody from Touring Class officialdom has checked in to show me the error of my ways.....

[Franchise_24]

Chris I gotta say man you need to let this dead horse go. It's pretty sad you are ranting on this so much. If this is the worst thing you have to complain about you are having a pretty good day. Move along and let people have their cars the way they want them. Yes I have whitewall tires, but I'd be saying the same thing if I didn't. It's just not healthy the way you are going on about this subject.

[Forker]

I think this discussion could be a lot more valuable if we measured a few other critical factors as they related to choices in tires. For example we should also look at what the political and religious motivations of those favoring whitewalls or blackwalls. Once we completely vetted those two dimensions we will need to evaluate other critical factors such as who is pro-life vs. pro-choice and what tires they prefer. A few more key parameters might be needed, but only with this type of in-depth analysis we will be able get much closer to the inner workings of mankind and hopefully be able to make a significant contribution to society for many generations to come. Or, we could simply ignore all that and go back to enjoying our Model A as we each enjoy them, while continuing to share useful and helpful information/assistance here at the Barn.

george

(Apologies to Chris, I do appreciate the purpose of your post and understand it has been hijacked a bit for this classic debate)

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Chris in WNC

Frank- I agree Touring class should cut more slack than fine point. perhaps only a 5-point deduction for WSW instead of 10. just PLEASE no 500 point cars with whitewalls. very disappointed that nobody from Touring Class officialdom has checked in to show me the error of my ways.....

This is not fun at all. You're hung-up and just plain vicious. I think you've done more to TURN PEOPLE OFF and dissuade them from ever wanting to enter a car in Touring Class than anything I've read on Fordbarn to date.

"Cummon' enter Touring Class!! There's now a bunch of opinionated guys who want to fine-point nitpick the shit out of your car!!"

My next paint job will have colored fenders, and my next set of tires will be white. On one side only. I'm now thinking about hot-rodding my fine-point 40B.

Thanks for the lesson in how to poorly disguise a BAD ATTITUDE RANT as a 'just for fun' question.

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by Franchise_24

Chris I gotta say man you need to let this dead horse go. It's pretty sad you are ranting on this so much. If this is the worst thing you have to complain about you are having a pretty good day. Move along and let people have their cars the way they want them. Yes I have whitewall tires, but I'd be saying the same thing if I didn't. It's just not healthy the way you are going on about this subject.

Agreed

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Buy her a Studebaker!

Tom, I bought her (the skinny one with the blackwalls) the Studebaker as you suggested, but there was a problem...it had whitewalls! Now I just don't know what the hell to do. This whole whitewall thing has totally ruined my love life! To make things worse, the fat girlfriend likes the Studebakers whitewalls and she is mad as a broomless witch that I didn't buy it for her.

[sidhartha]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

Tom, I bought her (the skinny one with the blackwalls) the Studebaker as you suggested, but there was a problem...it had whitewalls! Now I just don't know what the hell to do. This whole whitewall thing has totally ruined my love life! To make things worse, the fat girlfriend likes the Studebakers whitewalls and she is mad as a broomless witch that I didn't buy it for her.

That's some funny stuff right there! LOL!

[5window]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

You should get a Dog, Fred, they contribute SO much joy & support to an otherwise mundane day.
I ponder what should our epitaphs read?
1-He had a Dog!
or
2-BOY! he knew his part numbers!
Bill W.

Ah, but if you were a veterinarian who liked model A's-they might know the part numbers of a dog! Look out, Buster T! Whitewalls, then bumpers, high compression head, brighter headlights, add a dog-oops change that for a lady in a Poodle Skirt-next thing you know, you'll have a hotrod and have to post on the HAMB! They like dogs,too,though.

I think we should all go outside and play.

[lookin-backtexas]

More fuel for the fire - I've already posted that I prefer blackwalls on Model A's but found this photo of a nice '32 Roadster with double sided whitewalls. I wouldn't kick it out of bed for having whitewalls. It was listed for sale on the Early V8 section of the Ford Barn Swap Meet and he was asking $62,000 and marked it SOLD!
Fred

[Chris in WNC]

Originally Posted by Franchise_24

Chris I gotta say man you need to let this dead horse go. It's pretty sad you are ranting on this so much. If this is the worst thing you have to complain about you are having a pretty good day. Move along and let people have their cars the way they want them. Yes I have whitewall tires, but I'd be saying the same thing if I didn't. It's just not healthy the way you are going on about this subject.

Frank, it's too much fun to stop now..... I should not have called it a rant, I guess; it's just a burning question I have for the Tour class honchos.
anyone who knows me will tell you that I am an incurably cheerful guy and almost every day I have on God's earth is a pretty good one. and I love ALL Model As, even those with whitewalls...

[Chris in WNC]

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Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

What I see as strange is, for a thread that is only 2 days old it ALREADY has had over twenty one HUNDRED hits and counting.

And THIS is on a subject that so many folks are hollerin' for it to be buried

Evidently this subject meets with a lot of interest on Fordbarn or so many wouldn't be tuning in to see what's up

amen, Jeff...
2184 hits ? holy cats!
wish proportional interest could be generated on some issues of importance......

[Chris in WNC]

[QUOTE=Forker;643702]I think this discussion could be a lot more valuable if we measured a few other critical factors as they related to choices in tires.


I'm glad we can't do that.....
it would lend inappropriate seriousness to the discussion :-)
plus Ryan would justifiably pull the plug for beilng political.

[Chris in WNC]

Originally Posted by MikeK

This is not fun at all. You're hung-up and just plain vicious. I think you've done more to TURN PEOPLE OFF and dissuade them from ever wanting to enter a car in Touring Class than anything I've read on Fordbarn to date.

"Cummon' enter Touring Class!! There's now a bunch of opinionated guys who want to fine-point nitpick the shit out of your car!!"


Thanks for the lesson in how to poorly disguise a BAD ATTITUDE RANT as a 'just for fun' question.

vicious???? hardly.

Mike I am sincerely puzzled how you get any of that out of my comments.

why would one lone opinion in the wilderness dissuade ANYONE from Tour Class judging?
'specially when there is little or no chance they will lose points for WSW :-)

I will not be entering tour class judging but you are more than welcome to look our Coupe over at the national meet in Lexington and nit-pick it to your hearts delight. it will evidently make you feel better and will NOT bother me at all. PM for contact information so you can enjoy this opportunity.......

[Bruce Adams]

Originally Posted by Dusty

Bill is not one to mix words, sentences maybe but not words Far as losing points for my green fenders I'm not worried about such stuff but I do have some concerns about the death threats

Thinkn about a new camo paint job for the "A" in WV

dusty

I wonder how many "Death Threats" are issued to this car with its original paint job? I will bet, NONE.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

How can I trade both the whitewall and blackwall loving girlfriends for the cheerleaders in post #90 ? With girls like them, who notices the tires?

[lookin-backtexas]

Originally Posted by Bruce Adams

I wonder how many "Death Threats" are issued to this car with its original paint job? I will bet, NONE.

Original paint job? Not quite. I've always loved the fact that with all the college mascots with macho names like the Longhorns, Red Raiders, Wildcats, Tigers, Bulldogs, Blue Devils, Nittany Lions, Eagles, etc. Georgia Tech chose the Wramblin' Wreck - and a Model A to boot!

I know they're really the Yellow Jackets but I have always loved their Model A.
Fred

[lookin-backtexas]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

How can I trade both the whitewall and blackwall loving girlfriends for the cheerleaders in post #90 ? With girls like them, who notices the tires?

Slightly off topic but your comment made me think of a post I saw the other day where a guy was talking about all the people he saw at swap meets wearing hand-lettered signs saying things like, "Want to buy - 1932 Ford fenders", "Wanted - 1929 Model A Truck Cab" and things like that so he hung one around his neck saying, "Wanted - Two girls at one time."

Fred

[1916modeltford]

And to think that all of this started again because as a new comer to owning a Model A I posted a picture of the 29 Leatherback I had just bought. Still excited about getting the A on the driveway on Saturday and will let it end there.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Chris in WNC

vicious???? hardly.

Mike . . . you are more than welcome to look our Coupe over at the national meet in Lexington and nit-pick it to your hearts delight. it will evidently make you feel better and will NOT bother me at all. PM for contact information so you can enjoy this opportunity.......

Thanks, but no thanks. I find no delight in opinionated scrutiny.

[Chris in WNC]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Thanks, but no thanks. I find no delight in opinionated scrutiny.

sorry, I misinterpereted your earlier post when you stated:
"Cummon' enter Touring Class!! There's now a bunch of opinionated guys who want to fine-point nitpick the shit out of your car!!"

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Originally Posted by lookin-backtexas

Slightly off topic but your comment made me think of a post I saw the other day where a guy was talking about all the people he saw at swap meets wearing hand-lettered signs saying things like, "Want to buy - 1932 Ford fenders", "Wanted - 1929 Model A Truck Cab" and things like that so he hung one around his neck saying, "Wanted - Two girls at one time."

Fred

I don't want two girlfriends. I'm trying to get rid of the one that likes whitewalls and keep the one that likes blackwalls. The fat one that likes whitewalls wants to ride in my '29 Coupe because it has whitewalls, but she just doesn't fit in the car. She won't ride in the Fordor because it has blackwalls. The skinny one won't ride in the Coupe (she fits quite nicely) because she only likes blackwalls. OMG I need help!

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

I love the guy who sez, "My car had a "THINGY" like your's, here's how I fixed it-----I'll help you fix your's, if you'd like to " Bill W.

[lookin-backtexas]

Hey Rock, I'm like you - one gal at a time is about all I can handle. Sounds like Chris and Mike need to smoke the peace pipe and get back to having fun with their Model A's - one from Chicago and the other from North Carolina . . . could lead to another "War Between the States". Maybe we should start a thread about "how to get along with your fellow Model A'er even though you both agree to disagree."

The unfortunate thing I've found with emails/forums, etc. is the reader can't always tell when you are being facetious, sarcastic, humorous, flippant or whatever unless you use the little smiley faced icons. You can make someone angry even though if you had said the same thing face-to-face they would have not taken offense to your remarks. There is no way of hearing the "inflection in your voice" with the written word.

Fred

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Yes Fred, maybe I should emulate Bill W. and get me a Buster T, because dogs don't care what kind of tire they piss on.

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

I don't want two girlfriends. I'm trying to get rid of the one that likes whitewalls and keep the one that likes blackwalls. The fat one that likes whitewalls wants to ride in my '29 Coupe because it has whitewalls, but she just doesn't fit in the car. She won't ride in the Fordor because it has blackwalls. The skinny one won't ride in the Coupe (she fits quite nicely) because she only likes blackwalls. OMG I need help!

Whew Rock. You need help. Ok. How about weight watchers for the fat one? And a blindfold for the skinny one? Just a thought.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Originally Posted by zzlegend

Whew Rock. You need help. Ok. How about weight watchers for the fat one? And a blindfold for the skinny one? Just a thought.

I've tried blindfolds, but unfortunately I can read braille when I'm with a woman.

Perhaps your blindfold suggestion would work well for those that look upon tires with too much scrutiny.

[Ron Lowe]

That's enough. I say vote Buster T for president.

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by rock hornbuckle

i've tried blindfolds, but unfortunately i can read braille when i'm with a woman.:d

perhaps your blindfold suggestion would work well for those that look upon tires with too much scrutiny.

lol

[Steve Wastler]

Ok , been reading this and will interject my opinion:
I love all vehicles.
I hate white walls.
I love all model A's.
I love ALL white tires on teen and pre teen vehicles.

Learned longggggg ago (age 5 or 6) not to give a shit what anyone thinks of me, my stuff or my opinion.

Some of you need a little thicker skin, and not take every bloody comment personally and to heart.

[5window]

Originally Posted by lookin-backtexas

Hey Rock, I'm like you - one gal at a time is about all I can handle. Sounds like Chris and Mike need to smoke the peace pipe and get back to having fun with their Model A's - one from Chicago and the other from North Carolina . . . could lead to another "War Between the States". Maybe we should start a thread about "how to get along with your fellow Model A'er even though you both agree to disagree."

The unfortunate thing I've found with emails/forums, etc. is the reader can't always tell when you are being facetious, sarcastic, humorous, flippant or whatever unless you use the little smiley faced icons. You can make someone angry even though if you had said the same thing face-to-face they would have not taken offense to your remarks. There is no way of hearing the "inflection in your voice" with the written word.
Fred

My former business coach showed us data that 93% of "communication" is lost when not talking face-to-face.

[Tiny]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I like redheads!
with big BOOBS

[lookin-backtexas]

Originally Posted by 5window

My former business coach showed us data that 93% of "communication" is lost when not talking face-to-face.

And speaking of statistics, here are some statistical facts:
The average human has one breast and one testicle. ~Des McHale

98% of all statistics are made up. ~Author Unknown

Say you were standing with one foot in the oven and one foot in an ice bucket. According to the percentage people, you should be perfectly comfortable. ~Bobby Bragan, 1963

Statistics can be made to prove anything - even the truth. ~Author Unknown

Then there is the man who drowned crossing a stream with an average depth of six inches. ~W.I.E. Gates

I like your tagline 'Well, old Barney—he was goin’ some!" One of my favorite sayings is, "You can't believe everything you read on the internet - Abraham Lincoln".

[James Rogers]

Well, I'm with Tiny!!!!!!!

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by buddridge

Opinions are like ass holes, everyone has one.

And they all stink.

[spdway1]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I like redheads!
with big BOOBS

<-------Helper Here: I am working on that!

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I like redheads!
with big BOOBS

As 5window pointed out, 93% of "communication" is lost when not talking face-to-face. In this case the remaining 7% more than adequately gets the point across.

[bhiland]

I like whitewalls on my cabriolet. But I do like blackwalls to

[Allanw]

You guys know you can have Green walls, Red walls, Yellow Walls etc now... right?

Some people avoid clubs BECAUSE of the judging they get even when not in shows. Same for forums.

[Hicktick]

The whitewall dog house .

Mama had a 56 chevy wagon that needed tires . Daddy thought he would save some money.
Got a deal on a set of blackwalls , well when she saw her car it was the doghouse for him .

Fast foreward about a year or so and he needed tires on his buick , and I remember her say , you gonna save some money on your tires .

[James Rogers]

White walls? I thought we were discussing redheads.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

How can I trade both the whitewall and blackwall loving girlfriends for the cheerleaders in post #90 ? With girls like them, who notices the tires?

Hell I couldn't get passed the white fenders to even think about looking at the girls


dusty

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Dog here, I think youse guys should go do sumptin' & let your Dogs do sum intelligent postin' Buster T.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

Yes Fred, maybe I should emulate Bill W. and get me a Buster T, because dogs don't care what kind of tire they piss on.

Yo, Hornswagle, Dog here, I detest what u said, I taught you were a NICE GUY Buster T.

[5window]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiny
I like redheads!
with big BOOBS

As 5window pointed out, 93% of "communication" is lost when not talking face-to-face. In this case the remaining 7% more than adequately gets the point across.

Ah, yes, but as they say-a picture is worth 1000 words-speaking of which, spdway1 where'd you get yours?

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by James Rogers

White walls? I thought we were discussing redheads.

[Tiny]

Exactly what I was thinking. Bounce bounce motor boat!

[ctlikon0712]

I like her float a motor mounts!

[Rock Hornbuckle]

OK, I'm convinced...I'm dumping both the fat and the skinny girlfriends, and getting a redhead with big boobs. Now I won't have to worry about tires and what damned color they are. No! Wait! I've heard that if it has Boobs or Tires it's gonna cost you lots of money! Oh lord, I need to get me a dog. I need to determine if I should get a black one or a white one. Oh Hell! I give up!

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

OK, I'm convinced...I'm dumping both the fat and the skinny girlfriends, and getting a redhead with big boobs. Now I won't have to worry about tires and what damned color they are. No! Wait! I've heard that if it has Boobs or Tires it's gonna cost you lots of money! Oh lord, I need to get me a dog. I need to determine if I should get a black one or a white one. Oh Hell! I give up!

Dalmatian!

[Tiny]

There you go a redhead with big boobs and one with a blackwalled model A.

[Tiny]

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And don't worry Dog. we have black and white dogs here too! Just a bit bigger than you though!

[Mitch//pa]

alright guys lets not be fooled,
make sure the carpet matches the drapes

[Rock Hornbuckle]

Originally Posted by Tiny

And don't worry Dog. we have black and white dogs here too! Just a bit bigger than you though!

This thread has really gone to the dogs!

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by Rock Hornbuckle

This thread has really gone to the dogs!

But, now it's FUN!

[Bob-A]

Personally I think we should change the thread subject to cotter pins!
The proper placement and bending of same...........

Bob-A

PS: Never use the stainless steel ones, you will regret it!

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Yowza !

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

alright guys lets not be fooled,
make sure the carpet matches the drapes

Excllent idea. LOL

[dankurth]

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

Yowza !

Finally, a set of float -a - motors that I wouldn't mind having in my car. Talk about vibration dampers.