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Old 05-13-2015, 01:55 PM   #81
Fred K-OR
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

Wow! Looks like you are making progress.
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Old 05-13-2015, 02:17 PM   #82
d.j. moordigian
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

Will,

Have you run the engine with the independent runners for the carbs?
I tried it about 30 years ago and it seemed too run better with a balance tube..
I changed the size of the balance tube also for a better transition.
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Old 05-14-2015, 12:25 PM   #83
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

DJ: I understand your concern for vacuum balance between inlet ports, as we went thru a similar 'thrash' with the stock cars, particularly with the exhaust and we felt like not only did the balance tube help, but both the diameter and the location made a noticeable difference. The closer to the exhaust port, we could get by with a somewhat smaller diameter because the pulse pressure was more significant. This balance tube concern was MUCH more sensitive when we ran the 180 degree headers because of the closer pulse cycles.

More to your point concerning the intake. I have an interest (more like a concern) that a balance tube might be required, or help, but I have absolutely NO experience with the small bore/port motors, and do not want to add a tube in the wrong place or size. In anticipation of the issue I went to GREAT lengths to flow each pair of ORIGINAL jets to a ready as close as I could read on the catch tube. I used matching pairs of upper and lower bodies and venturies. They were both rebuilt by Dave Cella, just before he passed away, and they were dyno tested within 6-minutes of each other to within 1/2 foot pounds of torque. [NOT on my motor!!!!].

The accelerator linkage will be joined, but I will have separate GAV adjustments and it is my intention to weld in vacuum ports at the outer edge of each intake runner as close as I can get to the manifold and monitor individual vacuum and make adjustments to make the vacuum be as close as I can to each other. In addition, I will 'index' the plugs and read the carbon trails on them, but his might be overkill on this motor design.

I am VERY interested in your thoughts on monitoring the vacuum to make a determination as to whether a balance tube is needed. What did you end up doing for your motor at that time? What are your suggestions for location and diameter???

I am making preparations for a metal shaping event, and this motor work will not be at the forefront of my efforts, but I am still very interested in your thoughts.
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Old 05-16-2015, 05:54 AM   #84
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

DJ: Another thing that I am concerned about using an inlet balance tube is that unlike the exhaust system, the intake system uses the vacuum to move the inlet charge. By adding a balance tube at any location, or using a tube of any diameter, it will increase the inlet volume, and by maintaining the same inlet vacuum it would result in a slower acceleration of the fuel charge, resulting in less fuel to those cylinders. Your thoughts?
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Old 05-17-2015, 07:29 PM   #85
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

Have recently finished riveting the floor and and firewall on the speedster.

rivetfloor 001.jpg

rivetfloor 003.jpg

rivetfloor 004.jpg

rivetfloor 005.jpg

rivetfloor 007.jpg

rivetfloor 009.jpg

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Old 05-17-2015, 07:35 PM   #86
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

So impressive! Such precision! Can hardly wait until she's rolling under power. Thanks for sharing the journey.
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:19 PM   #87
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHillWill View Post
DJ: Another thing that I am concerned about using an inlet balance tube is that unlike the exhaust system, the intake system uses the vacuum to move the inlet charge. By adding a balance tube at any location, or using a tube of any diameter, it will increase the inlet volume, and by maintaining the same inlet vacuum it would result in a slower acceleration of the fuel charge, resulting in less fuel to those cylinders. Your thoughts?
The first time I tried too chock down the balance tube was on a 1275
Sprite / Midget for SCCA. It had a stock BMC manifold with SU's and killed
the "low speed" drive-abilty. I started opening up the holes in the tube till
we had a happy balance. He also ran auto-cross's which really showed the
problem..

The second time was in a restricted class. Short track paved stock cars,
ported iron 2 barrel intakes(Brzezinski) with a Holley 350 2 barrel. I made the Aluminum adapter (2")and and match ported it both ways. Same thing.
I ended up cutting a transfer slot on the top side of the adapter too improve the low speed,...like your coming down for the first "Green". Hell,
I even "fudged" and put a 500 baseplate and reworked under the venturi
too match things up.

I've noticed it in the Weber set-ups (4 carbs on a downdraft) in Can-Am
before fuel injection. Also in the Hilborn type manifolds (alky) in the
Super Modifieds.

Sooo,..this got me thinking. The 4 cam Ford Indy engines, gas or alky,
ran a booster venturi,...which I'm sure was there for the low speed part
of the RPM range...need a photo? Remember, some of those cars ran
2 speed Halibrand's at Indy!

I think it needs the pulse from the other manifold at low speeds..

I know your worried about it being "lazy",...I'd think about the "double
venturi" from the E-28 carbs...that could hop it up some on the bottom
end? This would be after you run a base line with what you have.

Balance tube..?...how about a spacer(s) between the carbs and the
manifolds,with a tube,...just too see if it changes anything ?

Dudley
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:47 PM   #88
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

Spacer between the manifolds is a GREAT idea. Could change the size as well. To increase inlet acceleration at lower speeds, I have considered 'filling' the inside of the runners at the 90 degree bend. Thanks for your input!
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Old 05-21-2015, 10:50 AM   #89
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

Uhhh,.....what are you doing with a Jag head in the shop ?

I've worked on those for 45 years,....have one sitting around here trying too figure
out how to mate it to an A. The bore spacing is a little to far off , I think..
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Old 05-21-2015, 03:03 PM   #90
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

Man you sure have good eyes! What picture do you see a Jag head in? The reason for the Jag motor is a long one. One of the reasons that I have not been around much Model A 'stuff' lately is that I have gotten a little burned out with the Model A restoration routine and wanted to try something different, particularly aluminum body fabrication. As a result, I met a gentleman in Tennessee that is restoring a 1935 Type 57 Bugatti Stelvio. (Apparently it is quite rare, because one night while we were working on it the owner called to say that he had just turned down 1.2 million dollars for it and it is still not finished being restored). This Bugatti is made up entirely of aluminum and the panels are all gas welded together, totally different from the Model A, obviously. One thing led to another and when the owner gave the restorer permission to 3D scan the car so that an entire new body could be made, I got heavily involved with the scanning and the 3D development work. The body has been scanned and I have already made the wooden 'egg crate' bucks for the rear fenders, the grille, steering when and other panels, and I am finishing the front fenders at this time.

Once the body had been scanned, the chassis needed to be developed, and I am doing that in SolidWorks. It has been decided to use a Jaguar 3.8/4.2 motor to power the new car, and I needed a 3D scan of the motor to mate with the new chassis and the scanned body, so I acquired an old motor and restored it to the configuration that we will be using, and made a 3D drawing of it in SolidWorks.

The pictures are roughly in the sequence that work is being done. The car that is being restored, the scanning of the car, building of the bucks, SolidWorks layouts, etc. Sorry, kind of a long winded answer.

Bug1.jpg

Bug2.jpg

Bug3.jpg

Bug4.jpg

Bug5.jpg

Bug6.jpg

Bug7.jpg

Bug8.jpg

Bug9.jpg

Bug10.jpg

Bug11.jpg
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Old 05-21-2015, 03:20 PM   #91
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

Upper right hand corner..
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Old 05-21-2015, 06:15 PM   #92
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHillWill View Post
Spacer between the manifolds is a GREAT idea. Could change the size as well. To increase inlet acceleration at lower speeds, I have considered 'filling' the inside of the runners at the 90 degree bend. Thanks for your input!
More thinking....

You could have used a muffler bend,....same affect as filling to form the "D",
but that looks like crap !
Step the tubing ! The same size you have now at the carb..then, before
the radius go down one size all the way to the block. It will have a reversion
dam at the edge of the port.

But the thing I keep coming back too.........it's a flat head ! Lots of twists
and turns to fill the cylinder.

For my hopped upped B, I was going to make a manifold for some SU's, when I get to that point..
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Old 05-21-2015, 07:16 PM   #93
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

DJ: I did not consider the muffler 'bends' but agree it would not look 'racey'. I understand the 'step' runners, but actually built these intake runners out of left over exhaust tubing.

I do not intend to run this speedster hard, it actually was more a reason to encounter aluminum panel forming and gas welding.

Thanks for your input, it's clear to see that you know 'stuff'.
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Old 08-22-2015, 10:05 AM   #94
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

This project has taken a back seat to some other projects, but I get a little done once in a while. Here is some updates on the steering wheel and a pair of ducts that I made to vent the rear of the lower body.

June2815 013.jpg

willy2 001.jpg

10June15 007.jpg

willy2 042.jpg

willy2 043.jpg
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File Type: jpg shop1 003.jpg (138.8 KB, 122 views)
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Old 11-07-2015, 06:28 AM   #95
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

I finally got the hand held bead roller finished. I have shown the test bead as a simple character line bead, but I am making a set of rollers to put the outside edge bead in the Model A fender. Progress is slow as the effort to help my friend, Jim Hery with his Bugatti and Delage projects have been VERY time consuming. He called two days ago, and has commitments to take both the Bugatti and the Delage to Concourse deElegance shows at Amelia Island and one some where in Texas next year. The Bugatti owner is communication with the folks at Pebble beach for the Bugatti.

The bead roller works extremely well, but is heavier than I was expecting it to be. I need a larger knob diameter on the adjuster as the one I made originally is too small in diameter and adjusting it while in use is pretty hard to turn. At the Oblong metal meet, I trimmed the wire edge pieces and the driver and passenger cover panels and hope to be mounting the body to the chassis today, if the rain lightens up.

NewTool 001.jpg

NewTool 002.jpg

NewTool 003.jpg

NewTool 004.jpg

NewTool 014.jpg

NewTool 015.jpg

NewTool 016.jpg
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Old 11-07-2015, 03:40 PM   #96
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

Hey Will,
Thanks for sharing. Wow, you have some awesome ideas/skills !
I thought that this was a TWO person (seat) car. Did you finish the two seat speedster ? Hm, maybe confusing your work with someone else ?
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Old 11-07-2015, 07:59 PM   #97
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

Had some great friends over today, Paul Crosby (the Redneck Roundup cook) and Charles Camp, both longtime Model A 'guys', that helped me finally get the aluminum body attached to the chassis.

Mr. 'hardtimes', this is a two seater, but the passenger sits behind the driver. It is more apparent when I have the upper body panels in place.

speedsterSat 001.jpg

speedsterSat 002.jpg

speedsterSat 003.jpg

speedsterSat 004.jpg

speedsterSat 006.jpg

speedsterSat 007.jpg

speedsterSat 017.jpg
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Old 11-07-2015, 11:23 PM   #98
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

Thanks for the reminder, as these pictures bring back recollection ! Awesome project, and my favorite color !!!

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Old 11-09-2015, 04:14 AM   #99
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

Excellent project, keep em coming
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Old 02-06-2016, 09:49 AM   #100
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Default Re: I could not sit idle, have a new project

With all else that is going on, progress on the speedster has almost come to a stop. I am anticipating that some work might get done during the Redneck Roundup. Here are some of the recent update pics.

SatMorn 005.jpg

SatMorn 004.jpg

SatMorn 003.jpg

SatMorn 006.jpg

SatMorn 009.jpg

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