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Old 04-29-2019, 04:03 PM   #1
Fortunateson
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Default 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

Not as interesting as other threads but here it goes...
I have a '87 F250 which came with a carb. Over the years the pollution stuff has been disconnected as well as parts have died. I had the original carb rebuilt a few years back but it always ran rich. A month ago I finally bit the bullit and had a Holley 600 installed. The shop I took it too regularly works on carb equipped vehichles. They installed the Holley and it runs much better. The throttle return spring is a bit heavy but I will change that.

Now for the advice... It is a bit of a struggle to get started. It sits for a week or more at a time and I pump it twice to activate the choke and to give it a squirt of gas. I may have to repeat this a few times bu eventually it runs at fast idle to war up. When I put it into gear it dies and I try again and eventually, though a little quicker, it runs. After about fifteen to twenty minutes of driving al is well. The shop removed the EGR when they installed the carb.

Any ideas/solutions? Thanks in advance!
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Old 04-29-2019, 04:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

I have a 1981 351m in my F250 and it runs a lot rougher than my 1955 crown victoria - which boggles my mind since it has an added advantage of almost 30 years of technology advances. I'm still learning my F250, but assuming its the same design does your vacuum motor in the air cleaner snorkel work? that draws in air warmed by the exhaust manifold until the engine warms up, after which cold outside air is funneled in. Mine runs, but isnt happy until warmed up. also, from what i've read, the PCV system should still be present and not messed with. And vacuum leaks are always a possibility.
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Old 04-29-2019, 04:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

Something easy to start with...
Have you checked to see if the new carb is running lean or rich? A quick test is the color of the soot deposits just inside the end of the tailpipe, and confirmed by the color of the sparkplugs.
The choke may be set a bit too lean, possibly the main jets also?
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Old 04-29-2019, 05:12 PM   #4
delco1946
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

Could you elaborate on what the colors are/mean?
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Old 04-29-2019, 06:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

In general, black is too rich and white is too lean.
A light brown or tan is about right.
Here's a link with images and descriptions....
https://speedmaster79.com/support/ho...r-spark-plugs-

.

Last edited by dmsfrr; 04-29-2019 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 04-29-2019, 09:15 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by dmsfrr View Post
Something easy to start with...
Have you checked to see if the new carb is running lean or rich? A quick test is the color of the soot deposits just inside the end of the tailpipe, and confirmed by the color of the sparkplugs.
The choke may be set a bit too lean, possibly the main jets also?
It does have the PCV still hooked up. As far as the colour of the exhaust I will check that. I know it's a lot whiter than before as it used to look like an old steam engine going up a steep grade! So when I did look at the exhaust I was pleasantly surprised it was a lot whiter so maybe it's too white?

Thanks for the tip. I'll see what I can do or maybe take it back to the shop. It does idle a bit high once it has warmed up and it do s have a RV cam.
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Old 04-29-2019, 10:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

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It does have the PCV still hooked up. As far as the colour of the exhaust I will check that. I know it's a lot whiter than before as it used to look like an old steam engine going up a steep grade! So when I did look at the exhaust I was pleasantly surprised it was a lot whiter so maybe it's too white?

Thanks for the tip. I'll see what I can do or maybe take it back to the shop. It does idle a bit high once it has warmed up and it do s have a RV cam.
Is the choke heated electrically or by a tube going to the exhaust manifold? If it's electric, is the power wire connected to the stator terminal on the alternator or just a hot wire from the ignition switch? If it's powered from the ignition switch, the choke starts heating (and opening) as soon as the key is turned on. This is wrong. It needs to connected to the 'STA' (stator) terminal on the alternator which has no voltage until the alternator is charging so the choke does not open too soon.
Also make sure the choke is closing completely when the engine is cold. It may be set too loose. Align the choke cap with the center notch to start with. If the carb has an external pull-off, it may be pulling the choke too far open when the engine first starts.
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:34 AM   #8
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Question Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

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Originally Posted by Fortunateson View Post

The shop removed the EGR when they installed the carb.
This is a 351W/5.8L carbed engine, the factory carb a H4180 and it was replaced by a HOLLEY 4160?

How did they defeat the EGR (specialty spacer-different intake)?

Can you provide a photo of the install?

BTW- 40 Deluxe's description is right-on if it is a choke setting problem.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:06 AM   #9
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

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Originally Posted by Fortunateson View Post
Not as interesting as other threads but here it goes...
I have a '87 F250 which came with a carb. Over the years the pollution stuff has been disconnected as well as parts have died. I had the original carb rebuilt a few years back but it always ran rich. A month ago I finally bit the bullit and had a Holley 600 installed. The shop I took it too regularly works on carb equipped vehichles. They installed the Holley and it runs much better. The throttle return spring is a bit heavy but I will change that.

Now for the advice... It is a bit of a struggle to get started. It sits for a week or more at a time and I pump it twice to activate the choke and to give it a squirt of gas. I may have to repeat this a few times bu eventually it runs at fast idle to war up. When I put it into gear it dies and I try again and eventually, though a little quicker, it runs. After about fifteen to twenty minutes of driving al is well. The shop removed the EGR when they installed the carb.

Any ideas/solutions? Thanks in advance!
It sounds like you don,t have any carb heat . i could be wrong , but as I remember ford used a snorkel from the exhaust manofold to the carb via the air filter housing and this was thermostatically controlled. When that air door didn't work correctly you would have cold engine drivability problems . As far as the cold start check the choke setting if it looks good make sure the carb is not leaking [look in the carb and make sure it has 4 or 5 good shots of fuel ]
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

I'll be getting back to this nearer the weekend. Thanks for all the replies so far! Stayed tuned...
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:50 PM   #11
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Post Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

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It sounds like you don,t have any carb heat . i could be wrong , but as I remember ford used a snorkel from the exhaust manifold to the carb via the air filter housing and this was thermostatically controlled.

When that air door didn't work correctly you would have cold engine drivability problems.
You are not wrong but that design was mainly used to supply heated air to an emissions carb which was calibrated very lean so as not to over choke (emmissions). By his going to an aftermarket HOLLEY, it should be rich enough to stand on it's own. It is most likely either the choke setting and/or fuel evaporation (defeated EVAP System).
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

I poked around over the weekend at my engine. I'm thinking it's the choke so I'm going back to the shop and let them sort it out. I'll keep you all posted.

Last edited by Fortunateson; 05-06-2019 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:07 AM   #13
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

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I poked around over the weekend at my engine. I'm thinking it's the choke so I'm going back to the shop and let them sort it out. I'll keep you all posted.
Just a little thing that it wouldn't hurt to double check... (photo)
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File Type: jpg choke thermostat cc.jpg (76.9 KB, 33 views)
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:32 AM   #14
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

Thanks for that tip. I haven't opened it up but the shop said it will have to be next week. Maybe I'll review the set up procedure for chokes as I haven't done on in years and have a go.
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Old 05-08-2019, 01:41 PM   #15
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

Did they change the manifold or did the Holley bolt up to the existing manifold? An increase in rpm is an indicator of a possible vacuum leak as a general rule especially if it started out normal and then increased in rpm over time. A lean condition may be another possibility due to some fuel passage partial blockage somewhere internally.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:16 PM   #16
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Post Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

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Maybe I'll review the set up procedure for chokes as I haven't done on in years and have a go.
Did the shop give you the instruction sheet for the carburetor? Choke setting and electric power hookup will be in there.
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Old 05-11-2019, 12:09 AM   #17
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

I got the instruction sheet when I bought the carb. I believe that the Holley needs a constant 12v supply but I'm not sure. Got really busy around here lately.
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Old 05-11-2019, 08:00 AM   #18
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Post Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

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I got the instruction sheet when I bought the carb. I believe that the Holley needs a constant 12v supply...
Correct. But the problem(s) you have seem to point to either choke setting(s) and/or fuel percolation.

Once properly adjusted (and before ethanol gasoline), one should be able to depress the fuel pedal fully and release and the car should start and run on it's own.

Can you tell me the HOLLEY MODEL NO.?
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:29 AM   #19
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

How old is the fuel pump and is for a carbureted engine? There may be a difference, plus if the pump is old it may allow gas to drain back into the line and tank.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:05 AM   #20
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

Fortunateson,


I have an NOS Holley for an '86 Ford truck 351W. Part number E6HE-9510-AC. Holley number LIST 50305-2. Carb has always been in a heated house since new. Appears as new. If it comes to that point, just letting you know I have one (actually two).


Sal
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:54 PM   #21
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Fortunateson,


I have an NOS Holley for an '86 Ford truck 351W. Part number E6HE-9510-AC. Holley number LIST 50305-2. Carb has always been in a heated house since new. Appears as new. If it comes to that point, just letting you know I have one (actually two).


Sal
Thanks for the offer Sal. I just got the truck back from my mechanic. I was going to fiddle with it myself but all of a sudden retired life got really busy. Anyway they adjusted the choke a wee bit and it seems really good. Now I'll see Howe it goes when I leave it for a week or two as it was a reall burger to get started in those situations. Almost like the fuel was draining out of th Efteling bowl. We'll see how it goes...
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:32 PM   #22
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

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... Now I'll see Howe it goes when I leave it for a week or two as it was a reall burger to get started in those situations. Almost like the fuel was draining out of th Efteling bowl. We'll see how it goes...
As the truck sits a few days the fuel level in the carb will start to drop and the float valve(s) will open. If the fuel pump has some age and its check valves don't seal completely the fuel line up to the carb will drain down to the fuel level in the gas tank. Possibly even lower than the fuel pump? And, if the pump is a bit tired getting the fuel back up may take a couple extra moments.
You could double check the output pressure & flow of the fuel pump.
.

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Old 05-19-2019, 07:29 PM   #23
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

I would be surprised if you don't have to grind on it after a couple of weeks sitting. It is the nature of a carburetor. If it bothers you, you can install a flow-through electric fuel pump back near the tank to prime the carburetor after the truck sits for more than a few days.
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:32 AM   #24
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Post Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

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Now I'll see Howe it goes when I leave it for a week or two as it was a reall burger to get started in those situations. Almost like the fuel was draining out of th Efteling bowl. We'll see how it goes...
After sitting and before trying to fire, take the ACL lid off and operate the throttle linkage to see if fuel is shot into the carb. No fuel means either fuel bowl heat percolation and/or fuel evaporation has emptied the fuel bowl(s).

Also, a mechanical fuel pump will not hold line pressure over time. The fuel in the pump to carb line drains back to the tank and the pump may take a while to prime. Same as starting an engine having to either prime the fuel bowls and/or having to dribble a little fuel into the carb throat making the engine catch enough to allow the pump to prime itself.
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Old 05-29-2019, 07:01 PM   #25
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

Good idea, will do. Truck running fine now though I think the idle speed setting is a tiny bit too high.
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Old 05-29-2019, 07:02 PM   #26
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Another good idea.
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Old 06-15-2019, 09:15 AM   #27
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Thought I should up-date. All is good and thanks for all the advice!
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Old 06-15-2019, 11:53 AM   #28
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Thought I should up-date. All is good and thanks for all the advice!
What condition did you finally find?
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:20 PM   #29
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Well to be honest I took it back to the shop and let them do it. After all I was way to busy at the time and I paid them to install and adjust. They said they just adjusted it and that's fine with me!
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:48 PM   #30
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That's OK. Sounds like a simple choke adjustment.
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Old 06-17-2019, 05:46 PM   #31
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

I could tell you a story on what I did to my 351 W. but you couldn't get it inspected and the dealer I sold it to was really P.Oed when he found out the parts were aat my EX-wifws house. Don't know why he just didn't go get them. LOL Al
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:38 PM   #32
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

I am the original owner of my 1986 F-250 with 351 engine. It always starts quickly even after setting a month. It runs perfectly in cool weather and in winter cold weather. It has severe hesitation and almost stalls when driving in warm weather. My mechanic rebuilt the original carburetor which is still on the truck, but there was no change. As i remember there was a recall when the truck was new regarding the intake manifold, and the recall was performed by the selling dealer. As my only need for the truck is in the summer I am fed up with its hesitation antics. Recently it hesitated and then quit entirely while driving. AAA flatbedded it to my mechanic who found the problem was unrelated to the hesitation and was rodent eating the gas line near the top of the forward tank (it has dual tanks). I was quoted $800 for a new carburetor but I need the truck so seldom it is going to leave home, asking $650.
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:11 PM   #33
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

Barnstuf, if your interested, I have two NOS Holley four barrel carbs for an '86 Ford truck with a 351W engine. Holley number is E6HE-9510-AC. Holley number LIST 50305-2. You can have for a heck of a lot cheaper than the $800 one you mentioned.


Sal
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Old 09-03-2020, 09:06 AM   #34
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Default Re: 351 Driving Me a Little Nuts

How much extra to deliver to Alabama?
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