Yet another timing question.

[lucky_stripe_garage]

So my I've timed my car several times. Jim Cannon helped me get everything correct. Then had an issue where my car died at the end of a drive. Spoke with Jim again and checked the timing and it was off. Jim recommended to add a washer under the cam screw since it seemed as though the cam screw was bottomed out. Did this and it's been running really well, HOWEVER, the more I drive it the farther down I have to have the spark lever and this is all on mostly flat roads. I previously replaced the lower plate, points, and condenser, so what should I be checking now? Thank you in advance.

[Gary WA]

Timing just a bit off. Ok on flat roads. I run all mine about 9 o'clock position. Others will chime in. All are different. Re-time takes a few tries.

[RonC]

Originally Posted by lucky_stripe_garage

So my I've timed my car several times. Jim Cannon helped me get everything correct. Then had an issue where my car died at the end of a drive. Spoke with Jim again and checked the timing and it was off. Jim recommended to add a washer under the cam screw since it seemed as though the cam screw was bottomed out. Did this and it's been running really well, HOWEVER, the more I drive it the farther down I have to have the spark lever and this is all on mostly flat roads. I previously replaced the lower plate, points, and condenser, so what should I be checking now? Thank you in advance.

Sounds like your point block is wearing excessively.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by RonC

Sounds like your point block is wearing excessively.

One of my thoughts too. How well lubricated is it and with what?
Other than that, it seems something is moving. I suggest checking everything from timing lever to points. Maybe the pin holding the little lever on the bottom end of the timing lever is broken allowing the rod to move in the small lever. Is the distributor itself moving in the head? Take the rotor button off and try moving the cam with your fingers. In short, assume nothing.

[Tom Endy]

Recheck the point gap setting. New points tend to close up during the first hundred miles due to wear on the rubbing block. This will change the timing.

If you set the point gap at .020 they can close up as much as .010 in the first 100 miles on a new set of points. This will change the timing. If the points are reset the timing will be restored to its original setting.

This is why the point gap must be set first before the timing is set.

Tom Endy

[40 Deluxe]

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Just follow the factory procedure, making sure the spark lever is fully up.
Remember, you are only setting the initial timing for starting the engine. Once the engine starts and you move the spark lever down, you have altered the timing. By how much? No one knows! It depends on where you set the lever.
It is humorous to see guys fuss and fidget with their special gadgets in a vain effort to get the timing 'right on', then start the engine, yank the lever down to their favorite position and say "Uh yeah, that sounds about right"!

[Tom Wesenberg]

Also, after the cam screw is tightened, try to turn the rotor with moderate pressure.

You shouldn't be able to move it on the shaft. Don't worry about the shaft freeplay for this check.

[Jacksonlll]

Try to move everything with your hand. Something is moving. Make sure you steering column is not rotating a bit when you move the levers.

[RonC]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Just follow the factory procedure, making sure the spark lever is fully up.
Remember, you are only setting the initial timing for starting the engine. Once the engine starts and you move the spark lever down, you have altered the timing. By how much? No one knows! It depends on where you set the lever.
It is humorous to see guys fuss and fidget with their special gadgets in a vain effort to get the timing 'right on', then start the engine, yank the lever down to their favorite position and say "Uh yeah, that sounds about right"!

Yes you do change the timing with the lever. It's 20 degrees full advance by design. The slot on the cap was machined to allow the 20 degree adjustment. Your first adjustment is to make a degree wheel and adjust your column levers to make use of the full 20 degrees within the cap slot.

If you set your timing with top dead center and the lever down a few notches method as has been described by some, you lose some of that 20 degree advance capability. Follow the timing method on abarnyard.com. Your points should spark at top dead center with the top distributor plate all the way against the slot in the cap (lever all the way up)

[Big hammer]

Originally Posted by Jacksonlll

Try to move everything with your hand. Something is moving. Make sure you steering column is not rotating a bit when you move the levers.

I left the clamp loose and thought whats wrong ! It would not idle down also !

[Tom Wesenberg]

To avoid confusion, the 20 degrees of distributor rotation equals 40 degrees of crankshaft rotation.

40* advance is too much advance, so I never move my spark lever down more than about 28* or just under 3/4 of the way down.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

If the point arm pivot post is loose & wobbly, it will cause QUICK rubbing block wear. Take out the upper plate & re-stake it, under the plate! Just a TAP-TAP-TAP!
This condition causes the rubbing block NOT to make SQUARE contact with the lobe & wears QUICKLY! NO one has reported finding this condition??? Both of my distributors had this problem, so I suspect it's QUITE common, BUT easily overlooked?? Comments, PLEASE.
Bill Wobbly

[Big hammer]

Also check for a cracked points block! Yep had to replace mine, maybe I hit it with a Big Hammer :-)

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Lucky,

1. In one of your first sentences:

"Jim Cannon helped me get everything correct." and,

2 Later, "Jim recommended to add a washer under the cam screw since it seemed as though the cam screw was bottomed out. Did this and it's been running really well,"

3. From miles away, with everybody guessing at hundreds of possibilities, seems like an old, often recommended Forum "Quick" positive solution would be:

A. Call Jim; i.e.,

B. Nothing like the often Forum recommended seeking local assistance from a local Model A person who can far better educate anyone with a wonderful "Hands-On" demonstration.

[wmws]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

To avoid confusion, the 20 degrees of distributor rotation equals 40 degrees of crankshaft rotation.

40* advance is too much advance, so I never move my spark lever down more than about 28* or just under 3/4 of the way down.

I agree with Tom that 40 degrees is too much advance. I time my car so at full advance it is 30 degrees. That way I am not relying on my poor hearing for the sound of pinging. Just the way I do it. Others may just want to pull the lever part way down.
I also agree with 40 Deluxe that some people want to get the timing exact, then just pull the lever down somewhere and say that is good.

[H. L. Chauvin]

One fact that is absolutely 100% certain on our Planet Earth:

No matter how many trillion Model A owners write instructions or give instructions on "How to time a Model A.", the morning after the Egyptians, (who passed away in 5,000 B.C.) begin to return to their pyramids ...... one will be able to go online and read:

"Yet Another Model A Timing Question?"

[lucky_stripe_garage]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Hi Lucky,

1. In one of your first sentences:

"Jim Cannon helped me get everything correct." and,

2 Later, "Jim recommended to add a washer under the cam screw since it seemed as though the cam screw was bottomed out. Did this and it's been running really well,"

3. From miles away, with everybody guessing at hundreds of possibilities, seems like an old, often recommended Forum "Quick" positive solution would be:

A. Call Jim; i.e.,

B. Nothing like the often Forum recommended seeking local assistance from a local Model A person who can far better educate anyone with a wonderful "Hands-On" demonstration.

Unfortunately Jim isn't local. Also, Jim is one Model A guy, and by asking the question here I'm able to get recommendations from many Model A guys of what to check. I know to take some posts with a grain of salt. I'm only able to work on my A a couple of times a week, so I'm able to make a "plan of attack" so to speak before I get out there and go through the process of elimination to figure out what works best.


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[lucky_stripe_garage]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

One fact that is absolutely 100% certain on our Planet Earth:

No matter how many trillion Model A owners write instructions or give instructions on "How to time a Model A.", the morning after the Egyptians, (who passed away in 5,000 B.C.) begin to return to their pyramids ...... one will be able to go online and read:

"Yet Another Model A Timing Question?"

Seeing as I've followed the instructions in the Les Andrews book, and I've also timed via the instructions on the abarnyard site, my issue isn't getting it timed correctly, I can do that easily now. It's figuring out why does it keep coming out of time more and more after each drive. I've only had my A about a year now so coming here for help is needed sometimes.


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[J Franklin]

Sometimes the lock on the adjustable point does not hold the point locked. A rough cam can wear the rubbing block down fast. Both of these as well as loose cam can cause timing to change.

[lucky_stripe_garage]

Originally Posted by RonC

Sounds like your point block is wearing excessively.

I think you may be right. I'll check this evening when I get home from work. I've got an extra set of points if I need to replace them again. Thank you.


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