The Ford Barn

Brett Ritter · 03-23-2020, 09:50 AM

I am a new 31 Tudor owner and was adjusting the brakes. It all went well until when the front right was being adjusted, it did not click, it just turned. It also seemed like it was not moving to adjust & the wheel drag didn’t snug up.

I’ve looked for a schematic or diagram of the adjustment system but can’t find one.

Can anybody give me any guidance?

Thanks,
Brett

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30 Closed Cab PU · 03-23-2020, 10:03 AM

Here is a UTube video that shows the guts of the brakes, and how they work.

It does not discuss how to get the brake/backing assembly off the car, adjusting linkages, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd5RnwT4asE

Jim/GA · 03-23-2020, 10:09 AM

Brett, what part of the country are you at? There might be a helpful Barn member near you that can help you out.

We like to help new A owners.

Will N · 03-23-2020, 10:25 AM

The business end of the adjusting wedge (14 in the attached diagram from Bratton's catalogue), is cone shaped and has grooves cut into it. It rides against the adjusting shafts (16) that are attached to the top of the shoes. These shafts are beveled to match the angle of the adjusting wedge, and tapered so that the ends fit into the groves cut into the wedge. The clicking you hear is the ends of the shafts falling in and out of the grooves.

Now, if you hear no clicking and the adjusting wedge is not snugging up the brakes, it might be that the adjusting shafts are not riding on the wedge. Could be that the shoes are binding in a spread out position for a number of reasons: Rust or gunk on the adjusting shafts, broken return springs (18&19)... It might also be that the threads on the adjusting wedge are stripped and the grooves on the cone are worn so when you turn the adjuster it's just spins without moving in and because of the worn grooves you hear no click. You gotta pull the brake drum and check it out.

Brett Ritter · 03-23-2020, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim/GA

Brett, what part of the country are you at? There might be a helpful Barn member near you that can help you out.

We like to help new A owners.

I’m in south central Tennessee.

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Brett Ritter · 03-23-2020, 10:47 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Will N

The business end of the adjusting wedge (14 in the attached diagram from Bratton's catalogue), is cone shaped and has grooves cut into it. It rides against the adjusting shafts (16) that are attached to the top of the shoes. These shafts are beveled to match the angle of the adjusting wedge, and tapered so that the ends fit into the groves cut into the wedge. The clicking you hear is the ends of the shafts falling in and out of the grooves.

Now, if you hear no clicking and the adjusting wedge is not snugging up the brakes, it might be that the adjusting shafts are not riding on the wedge. Could be that the shoes are binding in a spread out position for a number of reasons: Rust or gunk on the adjusting shafts, broken return springs (18&19)... It might also be that the threads on the adjusting wedge are stripped and the grooves on the cone are worn so when you turn the adjuster it's just spins without moving in and because of the worn grooves you hear no click. You gotta pull the brake drum and check it out.

Thank you. That was what I figured.

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redmodelt · 03-23-2020, 10:54 AM

Could also be setup with the floating wedge type adjusters. The type where the wedge is not attached to the threaded part, so would not hear clicks as the screw is turned in. Agree, pull the drum and have a look see.

Will N · 03-23-2020, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmodelt

Could also be setup with the floating wedge type adjusters. The type where the wedge is not attached to the threaded part, so would not hear clicks as the screw is turned in. Agree, pull the drum and have a look see.

Possibility, but not likely the other three wheels have standard adjusters and only this one has the floater. Did this one have a lock nut on the adjuster shaft?

J Franklin · 03-23-2020, 01:49 PM

Does that side have brake shoes?

Jim/GA · 03-23-2020, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett Ritter

I’m in south central Tennessee.

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I am 2 hours east of Chattanooga.

.

1crosscut · 03-23-2020, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Franklin

Does that side have brake shoes?

Very possibly.
My AA didn't have shoes on either side on the front when I got it.

larrys40 · 03-24-2020, 01:20 AM

Brett, I do lots of brake work and my guess is that there is hardened grease and maybe more that is packed in it and the adjusting shafts A-2042 aren’t hitting the detents. The only way to correct is disassembly. You can turn the wedge in with the shoes removed and turned it out and the cap will be forced out. When the adjusted is about to be screwed all the way in except the last little bit it may take a tap of the hammer to get it out once the threads are disengaged.
I would suggest tapping the threads as well. If the old wedge is good and not scored up clean, blast , and replace with a little grease on the threads and reinstall . Put a little grease on the cone and retap the cover back in place. You can retap the wedge lip on the plate assy to hold the cap back in.
Good springs as was said above are also key.
Snyders has the best brake springs hands down.
Larry shepard

Bruce of MN · 03-24-2020, 02:53 AM

Running a tap or thread chaser in the adjuster threads to get it all fresh is a good idea while it is apart.

Brett Ritter · 03-24-2020, 03:00 PM

No, no locknut.

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Brett Ritter · 03-24-2020, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrys40

Brett, I do lots of brake work and my guess is that there is hardened grease and maybe more that is packed in it and the adjusting shafts A-2042 aren’t hitting the detents. The only way to correct is disassembly. You can turn the wedge in with the shoes removed and turned it out and the cap will be forced out. When the adjusted is about to be screwed all the way in except the last little bit it may take a tap of the hammer to get it out once the threads are disengaged.
I would suggest tapping the threads as well. If the old wedge is good and not scored up clean, blast , and replace with a little grease on the threads and reinstall . Put a little grease on the cone and retap the cover back in place. You can retap the wedge lip on the plate assy to hold the cap back in.
Good springs as was said above are also key.
Snyders has the best brake springs hands down.
Larry shepard

Thank you, everyone. I guess I’ll be pulling the wheel...

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larrys40 · 03-24-2020, 06:28 PM

Brett,
Don’t sweat it , the front is easy
Just pull the shoes off the tracks and remove lower springs and then upper and it is free to remove wedge. 15-30 minute job of all goes well.
Keep us posted. I think you will find impacted stuff in the wedge and it will need a clean out.
Larry

Ps... as I said in my earlier post it may be needed to chase the threads on he plate and also blast and clean the wedge. A little grease on threads and a little in th wedge surface after install . Take a look at you wedge anchors on the shoes as they may be badly worn.
Do what is necessary to them as well. New ones are the best answer. They are always part of my comprehensive brake jobs.

03-23-2020, 09:50 AM	#1
Brett Ritter Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Tennessee Posts: 19	Brake adjuster question I am a new 31 Tudor owner and was adjusting the brakes. It all went well until when the front right was being adjusted, it did not click, it just turned. It also seemed like it was not moving to adjust & the wheel drag didn’t snug up. I’ve looked for a schematic or diagram of the adjustment system but can’t find one. Can anybody give me any guidance? Thanks, Brett Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

03-23-2020, 10:03 AM	#2
30 Closed Cab PU Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 2,332	Re: Brake adjuster question Here is a UTube video that shows the guts of the brakes, and how they work. It does not discuss how to get the brake/backing assembly off the car, adjusting linkages, etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd5RnwT4asE

03-23-2020, 10:09 AM	#3
Jim/GA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Young Harris, GA Posts: 1,821	Re: Brake adjuster question Brett, what part of the country are you at? There might be a helpful Barn member near you that can help you out. We like to help new A owners. __________________ Jim Cannon Former MAFCA Technical Director "Have a Model A day!"

03-23-2020, 10:54 AM	#7
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Brake adjuster question Could also be setup with the floating wedge type adjusters. The type where the wedge is not attached to the threaded part, so would not hear clicks as the screw is turned in. Agree, pull the drum and have a look see. __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!

03-23-2020, 01:49 PM	#9
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,963	Re: Brake adjuster question Does that side have brake shoes?

03-24-2020, 01:20 AM	#12
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 1,998	Re: Brake adjuster question Brett, I do lots of brake work and my guess is that there is hardened grease and maybe more that is packed in it and the adjusting shafts A-2042 aren’t hitting the detents. The only way to correct is disassembly. You can turn the wedge in with the shoes removed and turned it out and the cap will be forced out. When the adjusted is about to be screwed all the way in except the last little bit it may take a tap of the hammer to get it out once the threads are disengaged. I would suggest tapping the threads as well. If the old wedge is good and not scored up clean, blast , and replace with a little grease on the threads and reinstall . Put a little grease on the cone and retap the cover back in place. You can retap the wedge lip on the plate assy to hold the cap back in. Good springs as was said above are also key. Snyders has the best brake springs hands down. Larry shepard

03-24-2020, 02:53 AM	#13
Bruce of MN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: VA Posts: 1,410	Re: Brake adjuster question Running a tap or thread chaser in the adjuster threads to get it all fresh is a good idea while it is apart.

03-24-2020, 03:00 PM	#14
Brett Ritter Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Tennessee Posts: 19	Re: Brake adjuster question No, no locknut. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

03-24-2020, 06:28 PM	#16
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 1,998	Re: Brake adjuster question Brett, Don’t sweat it , the front is easy Just pull the shoes off the tracks and remove lower springs and then upper and it is free to remove wedge. 15-30 minute job of all goes well. Keep us posted. I think you will find impacted stuff in the wedge and it will need a clean out. Larry Ps... as I said in my earlier post it may be needed to chase the threads on he plate and also blast and clean the wedge. A little grease on threads and a little in th wedge surface after install . Take a look at you wedge anchors on the shoes as they may be badly worn. Do what is necessary to them as well. New ones are the best answer. They are always part of my comprehensive brake jobs. Last edited by larrys40; 03-25-2020 at 08:45 AM.