The Ford Barn

solidaxle · 09-25-2016, 10:09 AM

The car is assembled and drives, it has a tilt to the left. The springs have miles on them but look good. I turned the front one around and it didn't change anything. Most likely it's the rear spring or the frame is twisted. How can I check the frame for straightness?

Krylon32 · 09-25-2016, 10:46 AM

Over the last 30 years in the chassis business I have built 100's of buggy sprung chassis. I know the chassis is square and flat and the cross members are square but for some reason when the car was finished it wouldn't sit quite level. I've always blamed it on the rear spring which I think sometimes has settled a tad uneven. As a last resort I used the thin pinion wedges sold at 4 wheel drive shops to slightly shim one side to level the car. It never took much just a little between the cross member and spring. Not the answer you wanted but after much frustration on my part it's where I landed.

DavidG · 09-25-2016, 11:17 AM

I'd start by looking at the angle of the spring shackle links side to side both front and back as an obvious difference side to side will be indicative of a spring problem.

You can eliminate the frame from the equation or confirm that it is twisted by placing jack stands shimmed to equal height under the frame rails in front of the center cross member and in front of the rear fenders and comparing the measurements from the ground (obviously level ground, preferably concrete) to each side of the frame under the front and rear cross members.

woodiewagon46 · 09-25-2016, 12:01 PM

Also check the "U" bolts that clamp the spring into the rear crossmember. make sure they are tightened equally.

solidaxle · 09-25-2016, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodiewagon46

Also check the "U" bolts that clamp the spring into the rear crossmember. make sure they are tightened equally.

I have tried to tighten them on one side to off set the tilt. It helped but still off.

solidaxle · 09-25-2016, 01:04 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidG

I'd start by looking at the angle of the spring shackle links side to side both front and back as an obvious difference side to side will be indicative of a spring problem.

You can eliminate the frame from the equation or confirm that it is twisted by placing jack stands shimmed to equal height under the frame rails in front of the center cross member and in front of the rear fenders and comparing the measurements from the ground (obviously level ground, preferably concrete) to each side of the frame under the front and rear cross members.

Going to try your suggestion. I'll report back.

Andy · 09-25-2016, 01:32 PM

I check for chassis wedge by jacking up one end at a time and checking. Jack up the front axle in the center and see if you still have a lean. Jack up the rear end in the center to check the front spring.

Karl Wescott · 09-25-2016, 01:43 PM

Another way to check for frame twist is to use three jackstands, one at the middle of the center crossmember and the others at the frame rail near the rear axle. Shim the rear jackstands until level (with a bubble level). Then check the front. This does not require a level surface. This is best done first with the suspension off the car to show any latent twist. Once the frame shows no twist then start adding the suspension, piece by piece and checking level for each one. This should clue you in to where the problems are.

There is a sketch on this link: http://www.wescottsauto.com/WebCatal..._Technical.pdf

solidaxle · 09-25-2016, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

I check for chassis wedge by jacking up one end at a time and checking. Jack up the front axle in the center and see if you still have a lean. Jack up the rear end in the center to check the front spring.

Ok with the rear of the frame on stands and level I can get the front level. So frame looks good.That leaves springs. I noticed my doors are tweaked now, driver side is out at the bottom and Passenger side is out at the top. I'll have to shim the body once I get the suspension corrected.

Thanks

solidaxle · 09-25-2016, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Wescott

Another way to check for frame twist is to use three jackstands, one at the middle of the center crossmember and the others at the frame rail near the rear axle. Shim the rear jackstands until level (with a bubble level). Then check the front. This does not require a level surface. This is best done first with the suspension off the car to show any latent twist. Once the frame shows no twist then start adding the suspension, piece by piece and checking level for each one. This should clue you in to where the problems are.

There is a sketch on this link: http://www.wescottsauto.com/WebCatal..._Technical.pdf

That's a helpful article.

Thanks

Andy · 09-25-2016, 04:23 PM

A 32 roadster has little torsional stifness without the fenders. I set a stock frame up for a test. I secured the rear of the frame and put a support under the center of the front crossmember. I was able to make the end of the frame drop 2" in the 1 ft width from the support to where I was measuring. It was pretty scary. The fenders actually are the main stiffeners in a roadster. I made a fiberglass top and the twisting of the frame was tearing up the windshield stanchions. I had to add sliders. The main flexing in the frame is along the top of the K member. It flexes into an S shape with a torsion load. The solution for me was to add a torque box to the back of the K member and diagonal legs back to the kick up. It is stiff now.

09-25-2016, 10:09 AM	#1
solidaxle Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: upstate NY Posts: 478	How to check a 32 frame? It's tilting? The car is assembled and drives, it has a tilt to the left. The springs have miles on them but look good. I turned the front one around and it didn't change anything. Most likely it's the rear spring or the frame is twisted. How can I check the frame for straightness?

09-25-2016, 10:46 AM	#2
Krylon32 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,482	Re: How to check a 32 frame? It's tilting? Over the last 30 years in the chassis business I have built 100's of buggy sprung chassis. I know the chassis is square and flat and the cross members are square but for some reason when the car was finished it wouldn't sit quite level. I've always blamed it on the rear spring which I think sometimes has settled a tad uneven. As a last resort I used the thin pinion wedges sold at 4 wheel drive shops to slightly shim one side to level the car. It never took much just a little between the cross member and spring. Not the answer you wanted but after much frustration on my part it's where I landed.

09-25-2016, 11:17 AM	#3
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,101	Re: How to check a 32 frame? It's tilting? I'd start by looking at the angle of the spring shackle links side to side both front and back as an obvious difference side to side will be indicative of a spring problem. You can eliminate the frame from the equation or confirm that it is twisted by placing jack stands shimmed to equal height under the frame rails in front of the center cross member and in front of the rear fenders and comparing the measurements from the ground (obviously level ground, preferably concrete) to each side of the frame under the front and rear cross members.

09-25-2016, 12:01 PM	#4
woodiewagon46 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Long Island,NY Posts: 1,555	Re: How to check a 32 frame? It's tilting? Also check the "U" bolts that clamp the spring into the rear crossmember. make sure they are tightened equally.

09-25-2016, 01:32 PM	#7
Andy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kerrville, Tx Posts: 2,769	Re: How to check a 32 frame? It's tilting? I check for chassis wedge by jacking up one end at a time and checking. Jack up the front axle in the center and see if you still have a lean. Jack up the rear end in the center to check the front spring.

09-25-2016, 01:43 PM	#8
Karl Wescott Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,287	Re: How to check a 32 frame? It's tilting? Another way to check for frame twist is to use three jackstands, one at the middle of the center crossmember and the others at the frame rail near the rear axle. Shim the rear jackstands until level (with a bubble level). Then check the front. This does not require a level surface. This is best done first with the suspension off the car to show any latent twist. Once the frame shows no twist then start adding the suspension, piece by piece and checking level for each one. This should clue you in to where the problems are. There is a sketch on this link: http://www.wescottsauto.com/WebCatal..._Technical.pdf

09-25-2016, 04:23 PM	#11
Andy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kerrville, Tx Posts: 2,769	Re: How to check a 32 frame? It's tilting? A 32 roadster has little torsional stifness without the fenders. I set a stock frame up for a test. I secured the rear of the frame and put a support under the center of the front crossmember. I was able to make the end of the frame drop 2" in the 1 ft width from the support to where I was measuring. It was pretty scary. The fenders actually are the main stiffeners in a roadster. I made a fiberglass top and the twisting of the frame was tearing up the windshield stanchions. I had to add sliders. The main flexing in the frame is along the top of the K member. It flexes into an S shape with a torsion load. The solution for me was to add a torque box to the back of the K member and diagonal legs back to the kick up. It is stiff now.