Ditzler REDUCER Question

[Roadster62]

Need to paint two wheels on Dad's Roadster, did the fronts 31 years ago, still have most of a gallon of Ditzler #1245 Tacoma Cream left ofer. What is the recomended PPG reducer to use today? Thanks! Bob

[ford3]

easy answer is go to the paint store and ask them, whille there ask if 31 yr old paint is still good, i will bet the answer is no

[Jim Huseby]

Your Ditzler code, 1245, should be preceded by a letter designation, such as DAR for Ditzler/PPG acrylic enamel back then, which didn't require a hardener, but performed (higher gloss, longer lasting) better with. If it is DAR, the catalyst made for it back then may not be available now and I can't remember its code name. Maybe I've smelled too many paint fumes over the last 40 some years. As stated, you shouldn't count on it being useful. The heavier components will probably be solidified in the bottom of the can and when you think your paint stirring stick is sliding on the bottom of the can, it will be sliding on the hardened stuff. But, if you're curious, see if you can get it all stirred and agitated without any lumps. Then determine if it's synthetic or alkyd enamel (which are reduced with synthetic enamel reducer and don't use a catalyst), or acrylic enamel. There's a very slim chance it's acrylic lacquer with the prefix "DDL", which only requires lacquer thinner, blended for your temperature and humidity. Also, as stated, a good paint rep may suggest a catalyst that would work. If DAR, any common acrylic enamel reducer will work such as for PPG/ Omni or PPG/ShopLine. You will need to strain your paint several times. You can experiment with small amounts on properly prepared scraps to see how it sprays out and dries. Mixing ratios on catalyzed products need to be exactly as specified by the manufacturer. You will not be able to guess how long it will last, but I can understand your curiosity. However, when it fails, you'll have to bead blast your wheels and start all over. Also, as previously stated, a good paint rep will be necessary. An experienced painter friend could keep you out of trouble. Are there any Model A-ers or old car nuts near you that would help you? A Must-Read is the "Antique Ford Repaint Manual" by PPG and sold by Model A suppliers.

[Jim Huseby]

BTW, enamel and urethane overspray and fumes bond to anything within a city block and the smell will drive your wife away until safe for her to return, not to mention your lungs and skin....You already know that, of course. Fresh air for you is vital, as wll as a NIOSH, or better respirator. You can mask and bag anything, like your Model A and your wife's car, with painters car cover material and automotive (not hardware store) masking tape. Get the masking/bagging air-tight or it'll still get overspray on it. Painting is a life-long career and no one learns all there is to know in a life time, so this little advice isn't much, but have fun. Also, let us know how it came out and post pics.
www.olympic-speedsters.com

[Dick Webber]

If it is DAR and especially if DDL and the can is mostly full and well sealed it will probably be OK. Get the PPG people to give you the appropriate thinner (if DDL) and reducer and activator if DAR. I painted my hood with a 35 year old quart of DDL that I had left over. It still looks great 15 years later. Stir really really well to get accdurate color match. DAR is gone, but Shop LIne will probably work.

[J Franklin]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Speaking of old paint this is what I painted with a bunch of pint cans of metallic and solid color (Different shades & brands) of blue lacquer I had setting around the garage from yard sales.

[Roadster62]

Can has #1245 and Tacoma Cream on the white info area, Nice old green lable with "Ditzco" Enamel under the DITZLER logo. I posted the reducer question here because the can of paint is older that most paint suppliers counter staff. Bob

[J Franklin]

Here you go

[Craig Lewis]

Is this the label? That's good old fashioned enamel.
Buy some Enamel Reducer for industrial or farm enamel and you'll be spot on.
(Not Acrylic enamel reducer or urethane reducer...you want Enamel Reducer)
I know that Delstar acylic enamel would go "seedy" after a few yrs on the shelf...this means billions of minute particles like poppy seeds would pass through the cone filter and appear in the final paint job. I don't recall that problem with enamel but really haven't sprayed it much to know because Delstar & Centari were the "big shots" in my painting yrs.
Maybe your local hardware could put it on the shaker machine.
You can't get closer to original than enamel and it's worth a shot.
PS : don't forget enamel "runs well"...so pick a hot day to spray

[Roadster62]

Thanks Craig! Thats the lable on my gallon can, only differance is the instruction section. It soulds real nice when I shake the can. I'll report back Sunday after I paint the wheels. Bob

[Steve Wastler]

Interesting thread, while recently going through some of the stuff left at my mothers house, I found the Gallon of Ditzler DDL Bonnie grey I bought in about 82-3. I thought it had been thrown out by my mom years ago. It is still sealed, never opened since mixed and figured I might get lucky and it may still be good. Would it be best to leave it undisturbed until ready to one day use, or should it be stirred to see if still useable then resealed? I used to do my own painting back in the day, but its been about 25 years since painting a vehicle. I would like to spray the roadster one day in the not so distant future.

[J Franklin]

Keep your unopened can unopened till you are ready to use it!

[Roadster62]

Called the local PPG dealer, you guessed it. CLUELESS. Bob

[Purdy Swoft]

I'm not familiar with PPG paints but I would think that if it is synthetic enamel it would be like all other synthetic or alkyd enamel. I started painting in 1965, I liked Martin Senior 8005 enamel reducer. Any universal hardener will work with enamel. I've even used it with Rustoleum with good results. Acrylic enamel reducer won't work with synthetic enamel. Lacquer thinner will work to thin but will fade fast. I usually mixed synthetic enamel 2 to 1 , thats two parts paint one part reducer. Old enamel has probably thickened and you will have to play it by ear. When hardener is used the ratio is 4 ounces to 1 unreduced quart ou 16 ounces hardener per gallon of paint.

[Dick Webber]

I think the enamel will work and you should use enamel reducer (if you can find it) match to temperature. Almost anything will reduce enamel, but if it dries too fast and you have heavy coats you will run the risk of wrinkling. Seems like I have a gallon of Ditler BobCat enamel reducer somewhere. I'll look. It has to be 40 years old. An enamel activator would be nice to add, but synthetic enamel has been off the market for 20 years in automotive. Don't use any hardener from a partially used opened can. That will lead to the "seeding" referred to earlier.

[Dick Webber]

An after thought. Spray out a test panel first.

[Roadster62]

PROBLEM SOLVED! As soon as I read Bob Cat Reducer I remembered the great logo on a can in the basement. Just checked and it is a near full gallon! Thank you Dick Webber! Bob

[theHIGHLANDER]

Bobcat and Ditzco, 2 old names that take me back. Here's some info that some of you will embrace like a HS crush. Ditzler/PPG has an industrial paint line. I forget it's new name, but the truth is that it's good ol alkyd enamel. In later years you could go by the color of the label on the paints and solvents. Red was the alkyd, yellow was acrylic enamel, and green was lacquer. Later on there was a pastel violet colored label for Deltron Acrylic Urethane. The DAU line was heaven for a finisher. It handled like acrylic enamel and dried almost as fast as lacquer. No urethane "cellulite" in the lower finish either. Now it's gone because it contained a higher degree of isocyanates than other products.

Your concerns about old paints may or may not be valid. Unopened 30yr old lacquer? Put it on a shaker for 10min at a time at least 2 or 3 times. Once you do open it you want to scrape the bottom of the can (carefully so it doesn't splash out!) to be certain that the oxide tints are mixed in and not still settled. Another old trick to survive old paint, add about 10-15% solvent to it and then shake it up. You'll want to do this for stubborn colors like pastels and heavy metallics. Use only compatible solvents when you do this. That enamel is just fine, and with a bit of paint shaker time should mix up to the same exact color you remember. Bobcat reducer was a fast dry formula, however, the over spray will stick to everything even though it's a fast dry. The over spray will be sticky too for almost as long as the paint is. In plain English it's a fluggin mess! I'm talkin floor, walls, shoes, skin, EVERYTHING. If you can do it in a remote outdoor location all the better, but not over any concrete or pavement. Maybe some grass that you can cut off in a couple weeks

[Roadster62]

Thanks Highlander, glad you chimed in, I respect your opinions here and on the HAMB. Please stop by C4J-41-42 and say hello and check out the paint on the back wheels. Bob

[Don S]

Just what I am looking for,I also have one full unopened quart of Ditzler black enamel that was left over from my original repaint in 1985. I have kept it in my beer fridge all these years. Hoping it is still good,is one quart enough to paint four fenders? My paint job from way back still looks great,but gravel chips are starting to show. Thanks