The Ford Barn

Rien · 02-21-2012, 10:07 PM

I am in the process of pulling the engine and transmission at the same time. I have already removed the bolts holding the transmission to the shorter of the driver shafts. I already picked up the engine till the small hit the frame (by accident), and I tried to pull the engine forwards until I figured out that I had completely overlooked the radius ball. I really hope I didnt mess up the mounting, theres are a 1/8 to 1/4 inch gap on the back (rear) side of the radius ball cover where it is pressed to the frame. Is this normal or did I do some damage?

And since the bolts are spinning as I attempt to remove the engine and tranny together, do I need to remove the tranny from the engine in order to gain access to these bolts to stop them from spinning? Would it be possible for me to pull these bolts down to stop them from spinning, Ive read something about hows there is a pin or slot in the head to stop it from spinning, could I get pictures of this inside the transmission so I get a better idea of what I am working with?

Sorry for the long post. And thank you in advance, Ill post my results once I am able to seperate the transmission from the engine, which I will hopefully be able to do after I remove them from the vehicle as one piece.

Doug in NJ · 02-21-2012, 10:33 PM

There is supposed to be a thin rod that runs across the bottom part of the bell housing, just above those bolts. It is supposed to pass through the slots on those bolt heads to keep them from turning. Possibly the rod is missing, or it has gotten bent. Or worse, the bolt heads and the holds in the flywheel housing can wear, causing the bolts to settle further down, so that the rod is no longer passing through the slots.

Doug

columbiA · 02-21-2012, 10:38 PM

Likely best to pull engine & leave front of trans supported on jack under back of radius rod. You may not be able to unscrew bottom 2 FW hsg bolts all the way out with RR in place.Loosen bottom bolts 1/4" or so then pull engine forward that amount,then you can unscrew bolts rest of the way and lift engine out.Keep engine & trans in line so you dont bend clutch disc. If RR bolts are spinning,the heads of the bolts are worn into the clutch hsg & will need to be raised a bit with one or more washers under the bolt heads.Once you get it separated,you will see what needs to be done.

Rien · 02-21-2012, 10:40 PM

alright, so I might be able to push up on the bolts to get them to contact the bar. Ill be back in maybe 15-30minutes with a result.

Rien · 02-21-2012, 11:12 PM

so the results: I tried to push them up as i slowly rotated them hoping to make contact with something that would lock up the bolts, but they never moved vertically. I took off the top plate to the clutch and flywheel hoping that I would see the bolts at the bottom to put something on them to stop them from removing. Not a prayer at that happening.
I stuck a nail through the cotter pin hole to stop the bolt from moving, bent the nail (of couse). I replaced the nail with a hex wrench, I started bending the hex wrench but the nuts still refuse to budge of the bolt. Looks like the tranny is coming off

Rien · 02-22-2012, 08:54 PM

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I pulled the transmission off and found out why the bolts were spinning. I had not cleaned the threads off the radius ball bolts, so as I took off the castle nuts, they jammed, spun on the rod that was supposed to stop them from spinning, and bent it up so the rod never made contact. The rod had to be forced and held down to remove the castle nuts.

700rpm · 02-22-2012, 09:25 PM

Ain't this fun?

SSsssteamer · 02-22-2012, 10:43 PM

I recently had the same experience of the bolts turning instead of the nuts unscrewing. I took a cold chisel and split the nuts, and then they fell off. The pin with the cotter pin in the end was bent up and I straightend it and slipped it back in to capture the bolt heads. I ran a thread chaser up the bolts to clean them up and then I reassembled. A little extra work but it worked well for me.

Doug in NJ · 02-23-2012, 12:07 AM

Keep in mind that the retaining rod is a ONE DOLLAR part (in the brand-new Bratton's catalog). So don't hesitate to replace it if the original is even a little bent.

Doug

Rien · 02-23-2012, 02:00 AM

Thank you for the advice, Ill probably add that retaining rod to my parts list of stuff yet to be bought. Its getting pretty long now.

02-21-2012, 10:07 PM	#1
Rien Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Sussex County, Delaware Posts: 15	radius ball bolts spinning I am in the process of pulling the engine and transmission at the same time. I have already removed the bolts holding the transmission to the shorter of the driver shafts. I already picked up the engine till the small hit the frame (by accident), and I tried to pull the engine forwards until I figured out that I had completely overlooked the radius ball. I really hope I didnt mess up the mounting, theres are a 1/8 to 1/4 inch gap on the back (rear) side of the radius ball cover where it is pressed to the frame. Is this normal or did I do some damage? And since the bolts are spinning as I attempt to remove the engine and tranny together, do I need to remove the tranny from the engine in order to gain access to these bolts to stop them from spinning? Would it be possible for me to pull these bolts down to stop them from spinning, Ive read something about hows there is a pin or slot in the head to stop it from spinning, could I get pictures of this inside the transmission so I get a better idea of what I am working with? Sorry for the long post. And thank you in advance, Ill post my results once I am able to seperate the transmission from the engine, which I will hopefully be able to do after I remove them from the vehicle as one piece.

02-21-2012, 10:33 PM	#2
Doug in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 965	Re: radius ball bolts spinning There is supposed to be a thin rod that runs across the bottom part of the bell housing, just above those bolts. It is supposed to pass through the slots on those bolt heads to keep them from turning. Possibly the rod is missing, or it has gotten bent. Or worse, the bolt heads and the holds in the flywheel housing can wear, causing the bolts to settle further down, so that the rod is no longer passing through the slots. Doug __________________ My '31 S/W sedan project:http://31ford.dougbraun.com My restoration diary: http://dougbraun.com/blog Last edited by Doug in NJ; 02-21-2012 at 10:41 PM.

02-21-2012, 10:38 PM	#3
columbiA Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 1,746	Re: radius ball bolts spinning Likely best to pull engine & leave front of trans supported on jack under back of radius rod. You may not be able to unscrew bottom 2 FW hsg bolts all the way out with RR in place.Loosen bottom bolts 1/4" or so then pull engine forward that amount,then you can unscrew bolts rest of the way and lift engine out.Keep engine & trans in line so you dont bend clutch disc. If RR bolts are spinning,the heads of the bolts are worn into the clutch hsg & will need to be raised a bit with one or more washers under the bolt heads.Once you get it separated,you will see what needs to be done.

02-21-2012, 10:40 PM	#4
Rien Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Sussex County, Delaware Posts: 15	Re: radius ball bolts spinning alright, so I might be able to push up on the bolts to get them to contact the bar. Ill be back in maybe 15-30minutes with a result.

02-21-2012, 11:12 PM	#5
Rien Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Sussex County, Delaware Posts: 15	Re: radius ball bolts spinning so the results: I tried to push them up as i slowly rotated them hoping to make contact with something that would lock up the bolts, but they never moved vertically. I took off the top plate to the clutch and flywheel hoping that I would see the bolts at the bottom to put something on them to stop them from removing. Not a prayer at that happening. I stuck a nail through the cotter pin hole to stop the bolt from moving, bent the nail (of couse). I replaced the nail with a hex wrench, I started bending the hex wrench but the nuts still refuse to budge of the bolt. Looks like the tranny is coming off

02-22-2012, 08:54 PM	#6
Rien Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Sussex County, Delaware Posts: 15	Re: radius ball bolts spinning Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I pulled the transmission off and found out why the bolts were spinning. I had not cleaned the threads off the radius ball bolts, so as I took off the castle nuts, they jammed, spun on the rod that was supposed to stop them from spinning, and bent it up so the rod never made contact. The rod had to be forced and held down to remove the castle nuts.

02-22-2012, 09:25 PM	#7
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,906	Re: radius ball bolts spinning Ain't this fun? __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

02-22-2012, 10:43 PM	#8
SSsssteamer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sedro-Woolley, WA Posts: 1,023	Re: radius ball bolts spinning I recently had the same experience of the bolts turning instead of the nuts unscrewing. I took a cold chisel and split the nuts, and then they fell off. The pin with the cotter pin in the end was bent up and I straightend it and slipped it back in to capture the bolt heads. I ran a thread chaser up the bolts to clean them up and then I reassembled. A little extra work but it worked well for me.

02-23-2012, 12:07 AM	#9
Doug in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Princeton, NJ Posts: 965	Re: radius ball bolts spinning Keep in mind that the retaining rod is a ONE DOLLAR part (in the brand-new Bratton's catalog). So don't hesitate to replace it if the original is even a little bent. Doug __________________ My '31 S/W sedan project:http://31ford.dougbraun.com My restoration diary: http://dougbraun.com/blog

02-23-2012, 02:00 AM	#10
Rien Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Sussex County, Delaware Posts: 15	Re: radius ball bolts spinning Thank you for the advice, Ill probably add that retaining rod to my parts list of stuff yet to be bought. Its getting pretty long now.