The Ford Barn

Rien · 01-29-2012, 03:51 AM

Vehicle: Model AA 1930? Stakebed? pickup truck
I do not know if the stakebed that the truck came with is original since the metal stakes welded to the bed sills, the bench seat from a different vehicle welded to the cab, and the mirrors welded to the door hinges most certainly did not come with the truck.

I am attempting to find out the date and the month of when the model AA I am attempting to restore was manufactured. My current idea is that it is 1930, but some things do not add up even though I am aware of the practice of reusing old parts on 'new' vehicles on the production line.
Water pump: brass packing nut, steel tear drop
Engine number: (star) AA4264490 (star)
data plate on firewall: blank of course
fuel turn off valve: located on the firewall
Rear end: banjo with a tag possible reading 7-36, its hard to read at its angle
The truck came with two license plates attached: Delaware 3-1931, and Maryland 1930
Odometer reading (Waltham-round): about 32000 miles

Some conflicting ideas I have deal with the license plates themselves, is the year on the license plate the year they were issued, or the year they expired? I am sending information request emails to both Delaware and Maryland motor vehicle departments requesting information as to the first owner and vehicle these plates were issued to, any tips?

If the truck is indeed made in 1930, that brings up another issue, I must know whether it was early, mid (june), or late 1930 as it was a transition year for many parts especially the windows and doors.

On a side note: I broke the little lever that you place your fingers not your palm on that is on the shifting rod, what is this lever, and any suggestions on replacing it?

This is my first time posting on here, and my first time attempting to restore any sort of vehicle. Any help at all would be very helpful and greatly appreciated. I thank you in advance.

Mike V. Florida · 01-29-2012, 04:43 AM

Welcome!!!

According to the engine number chart on fordgarage, the engine is January 1931.

And after remembering Modelahouse, the engine passed final inspection and approval Jan 14th 1931.

So if the engine is truly original to the truck, the truck seems to be an early 1931.

Tom Wesenberg · 01-29-2012, 05:55 AM

The fuel shutoff under the hood would make it mid or late 31. I assume you meant under the hood when you said "fuel turn off valve: located on the firewall".

Try Bert's for another finger pull or lever for the shifter. This is the reverse lockout. You pull up on the lever to shift into reverse. Bert's:800-321-1931

I'd guess you will get no help from the DMV as most records only go back a few years, or to the start of computors.

The 7-36 is the higher speed rearend for the AA trucks, being a 5.14 to 1 ratio.

Reds34 · 01-29-2012, 10:06 AM

Pics are always helpful. You can also check out the AA Ford forums at:

http://forums.aa-fords.com/viewforum.php?f=6

Red

James Rogers · 01-29-2012, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Welcome!!!

According to the engine number chart on fordgarage, the engine is January 1931.

And after remembering Modelahouse, the engine passed final inspection and approval Jan 14th 1931.

So if the engine is truly original to the truck, the truck seems to be an early 1931.

You can add 3 or more months to the body build date on this truck since the motors usually .sat for up to 3 months in high production years and more after the stock market fell. My cabbie has a Nov 30 engine number but has a Sept. 31 body number. Motors in high end cars sometimes sat for long periods because of low sales in 31. I know the engine number is correct because the frame is one that is stamped 3 times and the owner that sold it to me was the second owner. The body was never changed and the frame is definitely a slant windshield frame.

RonC · 01-29-2012, 11:34 AM

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You should be able to date the truck by the parts assuming it has the original chassis. The engine number is nice to know but you really need to date the parts too. The engine could also have been replaced. The JS uses 60 days but your engine date could be only a few days or in some cases as long as a year (if pulled from the line for repairs) before the assembly date. Depending on where and when in the 4 or 5 year Model A production years your car was assembled will determine how soon your engine was installed. Just make a calendar table with months across the top and list major or easily dated parts on the left of the table from the JS. Color in the date ranges for each part you find on you car. If you do enough parts you will end up with a "best fit" date range of when you car was most likely assembled. The more parts you date and the more original the truck is the more accurate your date will be. You should be able to date your truck accurately between 1 to 3 months of the actual date of assembly.

329s · 01-29-2012, 01:31 PM

Not knowing anything about the AA Truck itself except for what you have told us is genearally a problem.

Is it known that this AA truck was an original assembled truck and parts were not parted out and changed OR is it something that was peiced together at one time from parts here and there?

It very well could of just been a chassis at one time and some one in the past put the wrong body on the chassis to really screw things up.

Without seeing it also presents a problem to any of us.

I would start with the frame and note the original stamped engine number on the frame itself.

Then as RonC says above, you must research the other assembled chasis parts to be sure they are in the time frame of the chassis.

I would contac Neil Wilson of the Double A Club (see STICKY above for his site) and go from there...Neil is the AA guru of Double A's.

Pluck

Rien · 01-31-2012, 08:14 PM

Sorry about the slow response, I have been busy with keeping up in my college classes that I havent gotten around to Model AA recently. Im taking up Reds34 and 1crosscut's advice and I am moving this thread over to aa-fords.com forum portion of the site. Im supplying the link to the other thread as well as posting images so you can continue following the rest of this thread.

Before I move this thread over, I will answer your questions and requests beforehand.
Mike V. Florida: Thank you for the date the engine was built, its incredibly helpful to me as I try to date the engine.

Tom Wesenberg: Thanks for the reference and Bert's phone number, and I did mean under the hood (check data_plate.jpeg), and I found a second fuel shutoff directly underneath the gas tank inside the cab.

James Rogers:

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Rogers

You can add 3 or more months to the body build date on this truck since the motors usually .sat for up to 3 months in high production years ....

I will definitely keep this in mind as I attempt to date the truck.

Ron C:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonC

You should be able to date the truck by the parts assuming it has the original chassis. The engine number is nice to know but you really need to date the parts too. The engine could also have been replaced. The JS uses 60 days but your engine date could be only a few days or in some cases as long as a year (if pulled from the line for repairs) before the assembly date... Just make a calendar table with months across the top and list major or easily dated parts on the left of the table from the JS. Color in the date ranges for each part you find on you car. If you do enough parts you will end up with a "best fit" date range of when you car was most likely assembled. The more parts you date and the more original the truck is the more accurate your date will be. You should be able to date your truck accurately between 1 to 3 months of the actual date of assembly.

Im currently working on a calender and I have a feeling that you are right about the engine, after wirebrushing every bit of the truck I ran across a useful piece of information. The transmission number. (AA-7006) (WG) (1) (MF or NF) I think the last part is MF. Written on the title is the number on the engine, also on the title is 1930 AA, odd, the engine is Jan. 1931. I have yet to find the frame's number, I think its underneath the cab.

329s: When I first started checking out the truck, I was under the impression is was all original, now I do not know what to believe, other than they were very simple to work. I do not believe its many different trucks/vehicles rolled into one, because where damage had been, the owners just welded a fix on. Example, the seat is missing, they welded a different vehicle's seat to the cab. And instead of placing wooden slats in the pockets on the stake bed, somebody welded metal stakes around the body. When I update this post, I will include these pictures

the link to the other thread on the model AA site is: I will update this post with a link as soon as I get a chance to upload my pictures, that will be later tonight, I estimate less than 4 hours.
I have posted the pictures I said I would near the bottom on this page

Keith True · 01-31-2012, 08:22 PM

Just going by the firewall that is a late 30,to an early 31.That is not a shutoff valve you are looking at,that is a sediment bowl drain.Up to about June 1930 Ford used the square cab,the 28-29 style.Then they went to the rounded style,like you have.Somewhere in April?May?? Ford went to the shutoff valve under the hood,but it is set into a teardrop shaped indent in the firewall.Your fuel shutoff is in the cab,under the tank,on the riders side.

Rien · 01-31-2012, 08:46 PM

I see what you mean. For comparison purposes, I included my truck's cab, a 1929, and a 1931. I had never noticed the difference before the way the cab is shaped, nor the upwards V on the 1929, and downwards V on the 1930 and 1931. And I also noticed where there is an indent on both sides not present on the 1929.

Keith True · 01-31-2012, 09:12 PM

OK,the picture on the left,you are calling a 31,is a 31 cab sitting on a 28 chassis.Forged running board brackets is the giveaway,it also has 28-29 wheels.The indent I'm talking about is on the right side of the truck where the fuel line comes through.There is just one,the fuel shutoff is supposed to be there but is missing in your picture.You can barely see it in your picture.Your middle picture is the 28-early 30 style,here we call them square cabs.Your truck on the right is a mid 30-early 31.Nice truck,we never see those here,they were beaten to death in the woods and on the farms.

Russell in Tulsa · 01-31-2012, 09:23 PM

I'll add my 2 cents. The round speedometer could be late 30 or early 31 to end of production. But I think you are getting all of the correct information from the other guys. Good luck and keep that patina!

BrianBurkert · 01-31-2012, 10:34 PM

Another date that you find on trucks is on the Budd disc wheels. My AA has 5-30 stamped on all the wheels (May, 1930). From other clues, my guess is that my truck was assembled in June or July 1930. Sparton horns also had a date on them: Mine, also May 1930. The engine was a June 1930 number. Of course, wheels, engines, and horns can be swapped from truck to truck over the years.

BrianBurkert · 01-31-2012, 10:36 PM

Also, note on above, that dated parts (engines, horns, wheels) may have been in transit or sat in inventory for several months before they were installed on a vehicle.

Rien · 01-31-2012, 10:43 PM

the first 2 pictures are those of the truck as it was before I started taking it apart. Im sorry for the grainy detail, I cant find the disc the photos were on, so I scanned in the high-gloss photos.
Another photo is one of the fuel shutoff valve located underneath the gas tank/dashboard. The long skinny object in the picture is the e-brake/parking brake for reference.
In the picture of the front of the cab, is this the dent you were talking about that distinguishes it from one year to the next?

Rien · 01-31-2012, 10:46 PM

rian, you mentioned the wheels were stamped with a date. About where were your wheels stamped? Over the entire truck, I have found a transmission number, engine number, both are different, but nothing else.

Keith True · 01-31-2012, 11:06 PM

Your truck does NOT have the indented firewall.Go back to the picture you included of the 31 cab sitting on a 28 chassis.If you look at the right side of the firewall,(riders side)look close at that big hole.It has a piece of pipe sticking out of it,and you will also see it is indented in a teardrop shape.Yours has the sediment bowl mounted on the flat firewall with the shutoff under the tank.That cab with the indented firewall is supposed to have the shutoff in that teardrop,on the engine side,not under the tank like yours,but it is missing on that cab.As I said before,that is NOT a fuel shutoff under the hood.It is a drain for that sediment bowl.That is something you will learn about,as you will be taking that apart to clear it out.

01-29-2012, 03:51 AM	#1
Rien Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Sussex County, Delaware Posts: 15	Attempting to date a 1930? AA Vehicle: Model AA 1930? Stakebed? pickup truck I do not know if the stakebed that the truck came with is original since the metal stakes welded to the bed sills, the bench seat from a different vehicle welded to the cab, and the mirrors welded to the door hinges most certainly did not come with the truck. I am attempting to find out the date and the month of when the model AA I am attempting to restore was manufactured. My current idea is that it is 1930, but some things do not add up even though I am aware of the practice of reusing old parts on 'new' vehicles on the production line. Water pump: brass packing nut, steel tear drop Engine number: (star) AA4264490 (star) data plate on firewall: blank of course fuel turn off valve: located on the firewall Rear end: banjo with a tag possible reading 7-36, its hard to read at its angle The truck came with two license plates attached: Delaware 3-1931, and Maryland 1930 Odometer reading (Waltham-round): about 32000 miles Some conflicting ideas I have deal with the license plates themselves, is the year on the license plate the year they were issued, or the year they expired? I am sending information request emails to both Delaware and Maryland motor vehicle departments requesting information as to the first owner and vehicle these plates were issued to, any tips? If the truck is indeed made in 1930, that brings up another issue, I must know whether it was early, mid (june), or late 1930 as it was a transition year for many parts especially the windows and doors. On a side note: I broke the little lever that you place your fingers not your palm on that is on the shifting rod, what is this lever, and any suggestions on replacing it? This is my first time posting on here, and my first time attempting to restore any sort of vehicle. Any help at all would be very helpful and greatly appreciated. I thank you in advance.

01-29-2012, 04:43 AM	#2
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Attempting to date a 1930? AA Welcome!!! According to the engine number chart on fordgarage, the engine is January 1931. And after remembering Modelahouse, the engine passed final inspection and approval Jan 14th 1931. So if the engine is truly original to the truck, the truck seems to be an early 1931. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II Last edited by Mike V. Florida; 01-29-2012 at 04:54 AM. Reason: Additional information

01-29-2012, 05:55 AM	#3
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Attempting to date a 1930? AA The fuel shutoff under the hood would make it mid or late 31. I assume you meant under the hood when you said "fuel turn off valve: located on the firewall". Try Bert's for another finger pull or lever for the shifter. This is the reverse lockout. You pull up on the lever to shift into reverse. Bert's:800-321-1931 I'd guess you will get no help from the DMV as most records only go back a few years, or to the start of computors. The 7-36 is the higher speed rearend for the AA trucks, being a 5.14 to 1 ratio.

01-29-2012, 10:06 AM	#4
Reds34 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Eastern, CT Posts: 527	Re: Attempting to date a 1930? AA Pics are always helpful. You can also check out the AA Ford forums at: http://forums.aa-fords.com/viewforum.php?f=6 Red

01-29-2012, 11:34 AM	#6
RonC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 1,868	Re: Attempting to date a 1930? AA Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) You should be able to date the truck by the parts assuming it has the original chassis. The engine number is nice to know but you really need to date the parts too. The engine could also have been replaced. The JS uses 60 days but your engine date could be only a few days or in some cases as long as a year (if pulled from the line for repairs) before the assembly date. Depending on where and when in the 4 or 5 year Model A production years your car was assembled will determine how soon your engine was installed. Just make a calendar table with months across the top and list major or easily dated parts on the left of the table from the JS. Color in the date ranges for each part you find on you car. If you do enough parts you will end up with a "best fit" date range of when you car was most likely assembled. The more parts you date and the more original the truck is the more accurate your date will be. You should be able to date your truck accurately between 1 to 3 months of the actual date of assembly.

01-29-2012, 01:31 PM	#7
329s Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Walla Walla, WA Posts: 239	Re: Attempting to date a 1930? AA Not knowing anything about the AA Truck itself except for what you have told us is genearally a problem. Is it known that this AA truck was an original assembled truck and parts were not parted out and changed OR is it something that was peiced together at one time from parts here and there? It very well could of just been a chassis at one time and some one in the past put the wrong body on the chassis to really screw things up. Without seeing it also presents a problem to any of us. I would start with the frame and note the original stamped engine number on the frame itself. Then as RonC says above, you must research the other assembled chasis parts to be sure they are in the time frame of the chassis. I would contac Neil Wilson of the Double A Club (see STICKY above for his site) and go from there...Neil is the AA guru of Double A's. Pluck

01-31-2012, 08:22 PM	#9
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,987	Re: Attempting to date a 1930? AA Just going by the firewall that is a late 30,to an early 31.That is not a shutoff valve you are looking at,that is a sediment bowl drain.Up to about June 1930 Ford used the square cab,the 28-29 style.Then they went to the rounded style,like you have.Somewhere in April?May?? Ford went to the shutoff valve under the hood,but it is set into a teardrop shaped indent in the firewall.Your fuel shutoff is in the cab,under the tank,on the riders side.

01-31-2012, 09:12 PM	#11
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,987	Re: Attempting to date a 1930? AA OK,the picture on the left,you are calling a 31,is a 31 cab sitting on a 28 chassis.Forged running board brackets is the giveaway,it also has 28-29 wheels.The indent I'm talking about is on the right side of the truck where the fuel line comes through.There is just one,the fuel shutoff is supposed to be there but is missing in your picture.You can barely see it in your picture.Your middle picture is the 28-early 30 style,here we call them square cabs.Your truck on the right is a mid 30-early 31.Nice truck,we never see those here,they were beaten to death in the woods and on the farms.

01-31-2012, 09:23 PM	#12
Russell in Tulsa Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tulsa Oklahoma Posts: 298	Re: Attempting to date a 1930? AA I'll add my 2 cents. The round speedometer could be late 30 or early 31 to end of production. But I think you are getting all of the correct information from the other guys. Good luck and keep that patina!

01-31-2012, 10:34 PM	#13
BrianBurkert Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Fleetwood, PA Posts: 420	Re: Attempting to date a 1930? AA Another date that you find on trucks is on the Budd disc wheels. My AA has 5-30 stamped on all the wheels (May, 1930). From other clues, my guess is that my truck was assembled in June or July 1930. Sparton horns also had a date on them: Mine, also May 1930. The engine was a June 1930 number. Of course, wheels, engines, and horns can be swapped from truck to truck over the years.

01-31-2012, 10:36 PM	#14
BrianBurkert Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Fleetwood, PA Posts: 420	Re: Attempting to date a 1930? AA Also, note on above, that dated parts (engines, horns, wheels) may have been in transit or sat in inventory for several months before they were installed on a vehicle.

01-31-2012, 10:46 PM	#16
Rien Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Sussex County, Delaware Posts: 15	Re: Attempting to date a 1930? AA rian, you mentioned the wheels were stamped with a date. About where were your wheels stamped? Over the entire truck, I have found a transmission number, engine number, both are different, but nothing else.

01-31-2012, 11:06 PM	#17
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,987	Re: Attempting to date a 1930? AA Your truck does NOT have the indented firewall.Go back to the picture you included of the 31 cab sitting on a 28 chassis.If you look at the right side of the firewall,(riders side)look close at that big hole.It has a piece of pipe sticking out of it,and you will also see it is indented in a teardrop shape.Yours has the sediment bowl mounted on the flat firewall with the shutoff under the tank.That cab with the indented firewall is supposed to have the shutoff in that teardrop,on the engine side,not under the tank like yours,but it is missing on that cab.As I said before,that is NOT a fuel shutoff under the hood.It is a drain for that sediment bowl.That is something you will learn about,as you will be taking that apart to clear it out.