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Old 08-09-2017, 10:16 PM   #1
drolston
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Default Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

Everything is cool while driving, but my '41 coupe with 284 flathead wants to go full hot during extended idling on a warm day. Using a temp gun on the radiator right under where the top right hose dumps into the top tank, after about 10 minutes it stabilizes just over 200 degrees. Looking into the top tank, I noticed that the water flow looked pretty puny, so I took out the 190 degree disk type thermostats. The water flow is now very robust, but all that did was take longer to get full hot.

The radiator is a new Champion aluminum, rated at 500 horsepower, so there is plenty of cooling capacity. Plenty of water flow; good radiator; - that leaves air flow as the suspect. Got that big 6 blade fan mounted directly on the crank, but at 650 rpm, it will not even hold a sheet of notebook paper to the front of the radiator. Running the engine up to 1500 rpm for a few minutes brings the temp down from full to hot, but not down to a normal range. The fan hub is 2 1/4" from the radiator, and the blade leading edges are further than that; like 3" for the top blades. Some '41 owner please confirm that is correct.

The timing adjustment on Pertronix crab is advanced 3 degrees with no pinging at all; should I advance it some more?

I do not have the skills or tools to fab a shroud, so unless someone has a better idea, I am headed for a very non-traditional-hot-rod electric fan, because this car and I are bound for long trips that will definitely find some traffic jams.
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:33 AM   #2
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

How far from the radiator is your fan. with no shroud, the fan should be no more than 3/4 of an inch from the radiator core in order to pull the correct amount of air. do you have all the sheetmetal "shrouds in front of the radiator that directs all the air coming through the grill to be "funneled "through the radiator. if not this could be one of your problems. maybe there are some "barners" near you that could help with some fabrication for a shroud.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:57 AM   #3
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

My fan blades edge is 15/16 from the radiator on my '41 coupe.
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:26 AM   #4
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

At Flat Jack's suggestion I installed a shroud on my '41 1/2 ton , I used a Walker shroud
with excellent results. The Walker part is heavy black plastic and you are given instructions on how to cut the fan clearance hole to satisfy the application. I'm using
the original radiator and a 5 blade crank mounted fan. The rag hangs on now. I must
say that unless you took a magnet to it there's no way you'd even guess the thing was plastic.
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

Yep,it worked wonders on my 39.
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

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Anything to avoid the non-traditional electric fan! I ordered a simple wrap-around shroud from Speedway for $29.99. Had to go with the 5 1/2" deep version, since my blade tips are 4" from the radiator. I will report back on this thread after installation and test.
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:02 PM   #7
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

Is there any way for you to get the fan CLOSER to the radiator (or the radiator closer to the fan??
Paul in CT
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Old 08-10-2017, 07:39 PM   #8
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

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Is there any way for you to get the fan CLOSER to the radiator (or the radiator closer to the fan??
Paul in CT
I could relocate the radiator closer but that would take rework of the mounting holes and support braces. The top hoses would be easy enough to modify for the radiator movement, but the lower hoses already do a pretty tight S turn, and I am afraid moving the radiator an inch and a half would make them even harder to get on and off, and maybe kink them.

Also thought about making an extender for the fan mount to get it closer, but the fan on the '41 is already on a 4" long shaft in front of the pulley, and I worry about keeping the extended assembly centered and balanced.

From what I have read, the shroud would be even more effective in getting more air flow through the radiator core. Should know in a week.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

The shroud needs to cover most of the radiator surface.
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:42 AM   #10
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

If you look on line at Summit Racing, Speedway, Jegs, and other street rod or racing oriented car sites, they will have fan extensions available in different thicknesses. Not too spendy either. Bill
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:48 AM   #11
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

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The shroud needs to cover most of the radiator surface.
The shroud purchased covers 250 square inches of a 380 square inch core. I am hoping that is enough to keep it cool at idle. The area outside of the shroud is open, which will allow more air flow through the radiator at speed.

Test report to follow in a week or so.
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:49 AM   #12
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

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If you look on line at Summit Racing, Speedway, Jegs, and other street rod or racing oriented car sites, they will have fan extensions available in different thicknesses. Not too spendy either. Bill
I am trying to find out if any will accommodate the 2.75" bolt circle of my fan. If so, I will do both spacer and shroud.
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

Quote:
Had to go with the 5 1/2" deep version, since my blade tips are 4" from the radiator.
If you have been reading about shrouds you have probably seen that the fan is generally supposed to be half way into the edge of the shroud. I would think you will need to trim that 5 1/2" dimension.
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

When I was a teenager, a long time ago I took the thermostats out of my 48 Conv. trying to cool it down. It just got hotter, an old ford man told me the water ran through the radiator too fast and didn't have a chance too cool down. He told me to take the center of the thermostat out and put the washer part back in. That was enough restriction to slow the water down and it worked. My 41 has an extension on the crank too, looks out of place, but I have no heat problems. Don't know what thermostats are in it, been to busy fixing other things. Al
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:44 AM   #15
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

Are you any cooler now with the fan shroud installed? I am having a similar issue on my '40 and am curious to see if this helps.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:40 AM   #16
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

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Originally Posted by Johngtate View Post
Are you any cooler now with the fan shroud installed? I am having a similar issue on my '40 and am curious to see if this helps.
I recently found out that a perfectly clean radiator (internally) is a must. Any slight blockage of the tubes will increase the temperature. Start with a clean radiator and work outwards. Run 180 degree thermostats also.
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Old 09-19-2017, 02:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

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Are you any cooler now with the fan shroud installed? I am having a similar issue on my '40 and am curious to see if this helps.
I have the shroud but have not installed it yet. I will get back to you in a week or so.
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Old 09-19-2017, 05:20 PM   #18
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

'41 was first year for the six, which is a longer engine. I believe Ford had a forward radiator location for the six and a rearward location for the V8. Maybe Drolston's car was a six originally.
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:42 PM   #19
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

[Quote] The fan hub is 2 1/4" from the radiator, and the blade leading edges are further than that; like 3" for the top blades. Some '41 owner please confirm that is correct.[Quote]

Need to understand. My project has yet to get a fan. Reading this makes me think the fan would push not pull. I am often wrong ( it's on record) So, please tell me.

He did say running fast helps.
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:25 PM   #20
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

Funny how those aluminum radiator guys rate their products to cool hundreds of horsepower; but fall down on 85 or 90 hp.
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:20 PM   #21
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

not only make sure all sheet metal shrouds are in place on the sides of the radiator but add a "filler" panel to the hood that will fill the area between the hood latch pin panel and the top of the radiator when the hood is closed. that panel will stop hot air from being sucked around the top of the radiator and recirculating back thru the radiator at idle. also make sure there is no noticeable gaps below the lower tank and the crossmember. what you are trying to do is force all the cool air possible thru the core.
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Old 09-20-2017, 10:59 AM   #22
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

Very good tips- I have the same issue, cools on the road and heats up at idle...and then vapor locks. Has gotten progressively worse over the past 5 years I've owned the car. Running 180 stats and factory setup. So maybe it's the radiator slowly flowing worse, but has anyone tried the Walker WS40 shroud from Speedway, 20"x21"? They have an application 820-40 that supposedly matches the '39-40 Deluxe and '41 radiator, with a "U-cut it" hole.
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Old 09-20-2017, 06:10 PM   #23
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

Seems like Speedway or someone else has a plastic univ fit fan shroud. You cut the hole for the size fan blade you have. At the moment I can't remember where I saw the ad for them. Maybe one of the A/C manf like Vintage Air could have something.
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Old 09-20-2017, 10:32 PM   #24
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

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Very good tips- I have the same issue, cools on the road and heats up at idle...and then vapor locks. Has gotten progressively worse over the past 5 years I've owned the car. Running 180 stats and factory setup. So maybe it's the radiator slowly flowing worse, but has anyone tried the Walker WS40 shroud from Speedway, 20"x21"? They have an application 820-40 that supposedly matches the '39-40 Deluxe and '41 radiator, with a "U-cut it" hole.
I have a walker should on my rad. but the rad. is from walker. not sure if walker rad. is exactly the size of a '41 but works well. Walker has a flange along each side that the shroud screws onto. does a stock '41 rad have a flange that the walker shroud will attach to?
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Old 09-21-2017, 06:41 AM   #25
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

Good point- I didn't see a flange on my stock '40 Deluxe radiator so maybe they mean it fits only a Walker one, will find out. I also have one fan blade that is larger than the others (it is about 8 1/2" from the CL on one side and 7 1/4" on the other) which I think is original, so to get better pull have y'all replaced that type of fan with a newer one with even blades? Mine is only about 5/8 to 3/4 of an inch from the core so spacers shouldn't be needed. Will let you know what I find out about the Walker shroud but it looks like a generic would work assuming I have somewhere to attach it.
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Old 09-30-2017, 04:31 PM   #26
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Okay, the shroud from Speedway is finally installed and tested. I left it 5.5 inches deep, except for a corner notched to clear the heater hose on the right side. It only goes 2/3 the way around the fan. The bottom is open, but the stock splash pan shrouds the bottom somewhat. There is about a 1" gap between blade tip and shroud. Note, I could not get the long plastic threaded thingies to go all the way through the radiator to fasten it. I ended up using some very stout nylon tie warps stuck through and capped with the end of another tie wrap on the front of the radiator. Kind of jury-rig, but the attachment is snug and does not rattle. I thought of using some long #6 machine screws, but guessing it would not take long for vibration and/or corrosion to cause a leak.

It definitely improves air flow through the radiator; the suction will now hold a piece of notebook paper to the front of the radiator. The actual improvement to cooling at idle is worth it, but not as much as I hoped. I am using a 4 PSI cap. Without the shroud, I shut it down when the temperature got to 225. With the shroud, the temp topped out in the 215 to 220 range, and held without blowing steam.

Took it out for a road test make sure the shroud mount would hold up through full RPM and high speed, without rattles. That went well, but was surprised to find that the temperature dropped to just above the Cold mark when cruising at 40 on an 80 degree day.

Lesson learned: It takes a lot to get air through these aluminum radiators because of the tight spacing of tubes and fins, but if you can force the air through them, they really do cool. If I weren't stuck in the old school hot rod mentality, I would put on an electric fan. Just can't do that. Would rather save up for a restored stock brass radiator.
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Old 09-30-2017, 06:03 PM   #27
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

There is also a aftermarket panel I have seen on '40 Fords that goes from the top of the grill to the radiator that helps direct air flow to the radiator. Whether or not that would help at an idle, I don't know, but combined with a shroud it should improve air flow through the core.
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Old 10-01-2017, 01:13 PM   #28
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

I am going to put the thermostats (170 degree high-lift Stant) back in, fab a panel to block air flow from the grill over the top of the radiator, and call it a day. For that 100 degree day when I get stuck in grid lock, I will carry a gallon of 50/50 in the trunk. And I will probably curse my aversion to that very non-traditional electric fan noise while I wait for it too cool down.
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Old 10-01-2017, 05:37 PM   #29
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

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Originally Posted by grumppyoldman View Post
an old ford man told me the water ran through the radiator too fast and didn't have a chance too cool down. Al
I have heard that before but never understood the logic. If it is going to fast through radiator for water to cool down then would it not be going to fast through the engine to heat up.

Tim
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Old 10-01-2017, 08:20 PM   #30
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

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I am going to fab a panel to block air flow from the grill over the top of the radiator, and call it a day.
Great idea! I really like this one that 19Fordy fabricated in the front hood cavity on his '40 coupe. DD

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Old 10-02-2017, 08:17 AM   #31
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

A shroud should work for the fan, but there are a few other things you need to know. First you should know what advance curve your engine has. A 284ci engine with an aftermarket cam, needs a modified advance curve. Having a petronics conversion doesn't adress the curve. Lastly. I believe in running these engine hot. 180 stats a good fan should keep the engine runnigg in the 180=200 range, which works well for these engines
Having a modified engine requires special tuning for proper operation. This includs an AF meter to determine the air fuel ratio in both cruise and power. a lean mixture can also cause an engine to run hot.
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Old 10-02-2017, 11:28 AM   #32
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This includs an AF meter to determine the air fuel ratio in both cruise and power. a lean mixture can also cause an engine to run hot.
The cam is very mild Schneider 248f with smooth idle at 600 rpm. Right now the engine is running great: no pinging, no missing, no hesitation or stumbling off idle or off throttle slam at speed; it will accelerate smoothly from low RPM. Gas mileage is decent 15 -16 running around town. Overheating has been only at idle, not at speed.

The L82C Champion plugs are one range hotter than the usual H10. So far the plug centers remain grayish white, versus the reddish brown I would like to see. So I may be a bit lean. If I decide to install an Air Fuel Ration meter, where should the O2 sensor be installed.
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Old 10-02-2017, 01:53 PM   #33
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Default Re: Why Ford Changed the Fan Mount in '42

I got a picture of the distance of my radiator from hood latch. I also sent you an email.
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Old 10-02-2017, 08:29 PM   #34
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I got a picture of the distance of my radiator from hood latch. I also sent you an email.
My 41 Pickup was originally a 6 and the radiator mount and hood latch were forward of the V8 configuration. It gave me fits until I found that out on a rebuild of a striped down car.
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