Frame VIN

[Mustang Guy]

My 29 Tudor which is still not mounted on the frame has only one vin # and that is the one on the chassis.The original engine is long gone. Once I mount the body it will no longer be visible. I was thinking of cutting an inspection hole in the sub floor to access it.Has any body done this ?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Rather than cut anything I would just stamp the same number in another location that is easier to read.

[frank55a]

Many states DMVs know where this is stamped and are getting very picky about lifting the body. If your title or bill of sale gives the number that is on the frame I would suggest contacting your DMV to find out the rules now while the number is visible. Perhaps all that would be required at this point is to have a state trouper inspect the number and sign a form. Check with your DMV!

At the minimum, chalk the numbers so they stand out take several pictures of the number and over lap them with Your garage driveway or other fixed items that are clearly at your location. That way you are documenting it and at your location.

[Charlie Stephens]

If I had the problem in California I would expect that the DMV (with their agent the highway patrol) would do an inspection and then assign their own number. They would then attach the number to the door jam and in some hidden place visible on the frame (hidden but if you crawl under the vehicle you can find it). But the real answer is ASK YOUR LOCAL DMV. I have a great deal of respect for Tom but I don't think I would stamp the same number in another location. It might work but it might turn out to be opening a can of worms when someone later saw the number in an "incorrect" location. I would be very leery about buying a car with a number stamped in a non standard location. If the number on the frame is clearly readable cutting the access hole might be a good solution but as I said before ASK YOUR LOCAL DMV. When you have the opportunity to do it right you shouldn't take short cuts.

Charlie Stephens

[3.6rs]

Who can post a picture of the exact location of the original Model A frame number ?

[Tom Wesenberg]

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Originally Posted by 3.6rs

Who can post a picture of the exact location of the original Model A frame number ?

Here's a picture Mike V. posted on another thread.

[eagle]

I would wholeheartedly agree with Tom W. Stamp it in a visible location. Also clean and somehow or another make the original stamping as clear as possible and take multiple pics. I would also re stamp the replacement engine with the original vin. Bring the pics to your local license bureau and see what they will do. If they need to physically inspect it you want to have it done now before you have the body all assembled on the frame.

[springerpete]

The thought occurs to me: why did Ford put the frame # in a location that is impossible to see when the car is completed ? Just wonderin'

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by springerpete

The thought occurs to me: why did Ford put the frame # in a location that is impossible to see when the car is completed ? Just wonderin'

My guess is it has something to do with theft. Not many thieves would remove the body to grind off a number. Today's cars also have hidden numbers, and many major parts have serial numbers.

[3.6rs]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Here's a picture Mike V. posted on another thread.

Thanks.

[Mustang Guy]

All great suggestions, but what I was really asking was if anyone has tried cutting an inspection hole in the will plate.The more I look at it the vin is right where the body block is and also where the floor goes uphill towards the starter pedal.This would make it necessary but not impossible to cut through several layers.

[DaWizard]

In all my years of wandering around Model A frames, I have found that unless you have the body off and can measure exactly where YOUR frame number is, it would be fruitless to try to find the number on a frame you can't see where it is. Since you do have the body off, this would be the time to locate and cut the opening. I don't think you will lose any of the strength of the body to do it, and if you do, I would make it as small as possible on the material removed.

It won't hurt to do it and I am thinking it should have been done at the original assembly time, but alas, Henry didn't have that much foresight. It will also give you a reason to stamp that number on the motor that no DMV can argue with because you can lift the carpet/rubber mat and remove a clip on cover to prove it!

To light it up, just use a couple Bright White LEDs and a 460ohm resister for the 6v system, just be sure to use correct polarity.

I wish I had visibility of mine, I would even light it up for anyone to see. It is what I do.

[Ron35]

HI Da Wizzard: I'm in Calif. and have driven my A to the 2 closest DMVs for inspection and they each insist I lift the body off the frame so they can inspect for the VIN. What a job. I'm annoyed as this all arose when they missed sending me my Registration notices, and they dropped me from the computer system. I called, went to them, showed them their last few Registration notices and asked them to accept the VIN on their notices. They've refused and want the body off. I've owned the car for 24 years, have tons of docs, etc to prove this..Also my title from the former owner shows the same VIN as the DMV forms--but they won't accept that either. A friend thinks I can spot the VIN w/o lifting the body: remove the floor boards and search over on the driver side kind of under the cowl and under some welting.

What do you think? Ron (at Lake Tahoe)

[ronn]

hey Ron

dawizzard was banned nearly a year ago............... old thread.

[denniskliesen]

Da Wizzard is gone if you notice under his name.

Ron, you can not access the vin by removing the floorboards. Why not just get the correct vin stamped on your block? But then are you absolutely positive you have the correct number? Lifting the body might be your only option.

[WHN]

As we all know VIN was stamped on block first at time of engine approval. Than stamped on frame at time of assembly of engine to frame.

Take picture of VIN on frame, that is the official Ford factory assigned number. Than if you can, stamp this VIN on the engine you will be using in car. Don't let your new engine get away from this car.

Know how lucky we owners are that have Model A's that still have there original engines in place.

[Roger V]

Don't assume you can just take the frame number, stamp the engine, and all is well. A friend had a copy of the original title clearly showing it matched the 1931 number on his frame. However the engine had a '29 number which matched the current title. So, the frame number was stamped on the engine and a corrected title was applied for. Thinking everything was in order, about a year later, he got a call from the DMV. His original number was in use already so he was told to either accept an assigned number from the DMV for the current year or find another engine with an original stamping that no one else had registered. Apparently, his original engine ended up in someone else's Model A and was "corrected" to that car. Ironically, the Model A in question was bought 400+ miles away in another state, yet the A with the other A's engine was only 30 miles away!

[WHN]

Originally Posted by Roger V

Don't assume you can just take the frame number, stamp the engine, and all is well. A friend had a copy of the original title clearly showing it matched the 1931 number on his frame. However the engine had a '29 number which matched the current title. So, the frame number was stamped on the engine and a corrected title was applied for. Thinking everything was in order, about a year later, he got a call from the DMV. His original number was in use already so he was told to either accept an assigned number from the DMV for the current year or find another engine with an original stamping that no one else had registered. Apparently, his original engine ended up in someone else's Model A and was "corrected" to that car. Ironically, the Model A in question was bought 400+ miles away in another state, yet the A with the other A's engine was only 30 miles away!

Very interesting problem. I would still think the frame number should take president over the engine number. Engine can be moved from car to car, frame is somewhat more permanent. However, you have a very interesting story. DMV I would think would understand engine was in wrong car. Frame number should I believe rule. Interesting comments. 29 engine number date in 31 car should be a concern for DMV. Enjoy.

[denniskliesen]

Originally Posted by WHN

Very interesting problem. I would still think the frame number should take president over the engine number. Engine can be moved from car to car, frame is somewhat more permanent. However, you have a very interesting story. DMV I would think would understand engine was in wrong car. Frame number should I believe rule. Interesting comments. 29 engine number date in 31 car should be a concern for DMV. Enjoy.

I doubt DMV in CA knows when a VIN originally from 29 or any other year Model A would be. I used a contract company in Huntington Beach a couple years ago to do a VIN verification, they only wanted to see a VIN, didn't matter where it was. I showed them 3 different VIN numbers and the gal asked me which one I want her to put on the title. Fortunately all 3 were visible.

My question to the OP, did you tell the DMV personal that you want to use a VIN on the engine? Or I assume you wanted to use the VIN on the past paper work visibly not the same number that is on the engine. ??

[Mike V. Florida]

Vendors sell a data plate. There is one for Murray, one for Briggs, and I have seen one with Ford on it. Have the serial number that appears on the title stamped on the plate and mount it on the firewall. Owners have also stamped that number on the engine.