Shredded the timing gear...but how?

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by OL JENNY

I know that installing a matched set of crank and timing metal gears is the best situation, but has anyone installed just Dan's or Bill's high quality metal gear with their existing crank gear and been satisfied. In reading the posts it makes a person nervous with a fiber gear. My engine is a fresh touring rebuild with a fiber gear also, and it would really be nice to not have to pull the crank.

The problem with replacing gears after a rebuild with something else is, the Gear lash on every gear, or set of gears will come out different.

When align Bored, you can NOT depend on a set center distanct for an alignment jig, because there are to many variances.

It is even worse with a used old gear and a New metal gear.

Not even counting the mesh not the same, but most of the time the old crank gear will have a place on the teeth that have ever touched a cam gear. That is where you get fast wear, and noise.

A gear with .008 thousandths clearance will give you noise even with new, or matched sets.

Dan wants .005 thousandths clearance on his gears, and they will come out perfect. When the motors hot, you probably have .003, which was I think Fords Spec's ?

Lash should always be set with a Dial, if you don't you have no idea what you have.

Herm.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

" Richard does not recommend metal gears as metal slivers could peel off and get into the engine."

Not sure how to weigh in on this remote concern.
However, if you have sunk some $$$$$ into a fresh build from anyone, we have to assume you had the foresight to install the oil filter package to protect your $$$$$$ mains. If so, I propose that any potential issue with metal slivers has been thus properly addressed.

Also as earlier mentioned I have also installed a new bronze gear and left the existing crank gear in place with no problems at all. And I do a lot of touring.

[QUOTE=tbirdtbird;998433]" Richard does not recommend metal gears as metal slivers could peel off and get into the engine."

What does he think about metal slivers coming off the rings, cylinder walls, cam bearings, lifter feet to cam shafts, Aluminum pistons, Ect.

Sounds like a problem where there will never be one.


Herm.

[tbirdtbird]

at this point we are at the same juncture we always end up at regarding oil!!

[Tom Wesenberg]

I always use a magnetic plug on engines, tranny drain and fill plugs, and rear ends.

You'd be surprised at the amount of fine grit that they collect.

[colin1928]

IMO a lot of these laminated gear failures can be traced back the incorrect back lash
having worked on other marques the back lash for laminated gears 0.0015" - 0.002"
same engines with metal gears (aluminium steel) 0.005"-0.007"
over years have followed these numbers and only 1 failure when I checked back lash you guessed it 0.006" on a laminated gear
On our Model A,s most have worn cam shaft journals ( normal wear and regrind) and worn cam shaft tunnels in the block the front bearing always has the most wear ( early 5 bearing blocks not so much)
this means that the shafts and gears do not run parallel leading to poor mesh uneven load on the gear teeth what chance does the gear have ??
Yes I know some books give the back lash for model A as 0.003"-0.005"

[Tom Wesenberg]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by CarlG

When I did mine, it was a no-brainer. The engine was already out & apart. I noticed that the fiber timing gear (on a 2,500 mile engine) was missing a couple of teeth. Among other things, I was putting in a new Stipe IB330 cam. So, when ordering the new Bronze timing gear from Dan-the-man, the matching crank gear was only $35 additional and no additional freight. ----- cheap insurance ------- (and no noise out of the peanut gallery)

Carl, those gears you pictured are straight cut. Are they for a Model T?

I assume Dan must make the correct helical teeth for the Model A gears.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Carl, those gears you pictured are straight cut. Are they for a Model T?

I assume Dan must make the correct helical teeth for the Model A gears.

It's either an optical illusion or I don't know what. I thought that was a picture of the gears I put in my engine, but now you got me wondering. I'll have my engine opened up in the next couple weeks or so, I'll take another picture.

[40 Deluxe]

I too wonder about metal "slivers" idea. Now, a "sliver" is a good-sized piece of metal, about like a finger nail clipping. Something would have to be drastically wrong to produce wear debris like that! Normal wear would be very fine aluminum particles, microscopic in size, and would occur very slowly, just a couple thousandths of an inch in tens of thousands of miles of driving! Such fine particles would either flow out with the drain oil or settle out in a quiet corner of the pan or valve chamber.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Carl, those gears you pictured are straight cut. Are they for a Model T?

I assume Dan must make the correct helical teeth for the Model A gears.

Dans gears have helical cut teeth. And they are very well made. Have used a few sets.

[Dan McEachern]

We also make them with straight cut teeth to eliminate the thrust loading on the cam.
No they do not make any more noise than the helical sets. Just saying.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Dan McEachern

We also make them with straight cut teeth to eliminate the thrust loading on the cam.
No they do not make any more noise than the helical sets. Just saying.

Hey Dan,
BTW, Dan's crank gear that is matched to the cam gear...is STEEL and not the flaky iron that was original. You will not flake or sliver pieces off of his crank gear !

[fivefix]

I'm going with Dan's gears and ordered a matching set this morning.

Anyone have experience pulling the crank gear with the engine in and if so, what tool is used to pull the crank? As of this morning, my plan is to pull the engine to replace the gears.

Dave

[hardtimes]

Hey Dave,
Good choice and plan ! Dan is about the quickest parts shipper that I've ever dealt with and a gentleman ! As I've stated previously, Dan is the only guy who has sent me parts....then sends an invoice ...after I've rec'd the parts and tell him they all arrived and are what I want !!

Since you are taking the engine out, would you let us know when you clean it of fiber parts, where you found the parts collected/lodged. There has been 'speculation' and guesses where fiber debris will collect. Some say..clean pan and run it , I say clean all passages, oil pump and pan then run it. Your findings will most likely help all who have a fiber cam gear disintegrate.

Regarding crank gear removal. With engine removed, I'd use a gear puller.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

...
Regarding crank gear removal. With engine removed, I'd use a gear puller.

Don't forget to protect the internal threads on the end of the crank itself.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Don't forget to protect the internal threads on the end of the crank itself.

Good point Carl ! Some pullers are nicely built with this in mind, however, if using something that goes down inside ...then protect those threads for sure.

[fivefix]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey Dave,
Good choice and plan ! Dan is about the quickest parts shipper that I've ever dealt with and a gentleman ! As I've stated previously, Dan is the only guy who has sent me parts....then sends an invoice ...after I've rec'd the parts and tell him they all arrived and are what I want !!

Since you are taking the engine out, would you let us know when you clean it of fiber parts, where you found the parts collected/lodged. There has been 'speculation' and guesses where fiber debris will collect. Some say..clean pan and run it , I say clean all passages, oil pump and pan then run it. Your findings will most likely help all who have a fiber cam gear disintegrate.

Regarding crank gear removal. With engine removed, I'd use a gear puller.

Of course. I probably won't start until after the holidays, but I'll re-post my findings and will include images to show everyone what happened.

[Mitch//pa]

what i would do is while the motor is hanging by the cherry picker drop the pan so the pieces stay contained to the oil pan as much as possible.. flipping it over to drop the pan may scatter the chunks around inside the block....just a thought youll probably clean it out any way but maybe less mess

[fivefix]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

what i would do is while the motor is hanging by the cherry picker drop the pan so the pieces stay contained to the oil pan as much as possible.. flipping it over to drop the pan may scatter the chunks around inside the block....just a thought youll probably clean it out any way but maybe less mess

Thanks Mitch. Will do.